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Biaggi’s Other Opium Den

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AnActualFam said:
You would need the military to do it, and yeah I don’t think the military would be crazy enough to coup the government, especially as Church has sizable Dem majorities.
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I think what Kim was going for was "isn't it funny how Mr Church's motorcade Just Did That, anyway over to you President Pro Tempore of the Senate James Eastland, let's discuss how many zeroes should be at the end of our budget numbers this year. I'm thinking...lots."
 
No doubt there'd be fuckery but at points like the 70s where there's a real lull in support for the CIA in particular I don't think it would be implausible for a President to gut the organization. After all, the stuff they do and the purpose they serve would still exist and be fulfilled by either other aspects of US foreign policy or at the very least by private actors.
 
Walpurgisnacht said:
I think what Kim was going for was "isn't it funny how Mr Church's motorcade Just Did That, anyway over to you President Pro Tempore of the Senate James Eastland, let's discuss how many zeroes should be at the end of our budget numbers this year. I'm thinking...lots."
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You wouldn’t even need something as open as an assassination (because I think that would probably carry more risk than it did benefit, although that doesn’t mean that angry lone wolves wouldn’t try) - all you need is to turn some of that intelligence gathering apparatus to the effort of gathering dirt on the President to try to get him impeached, or at least make him look bad.
 
i think that a dem president really going after the cia in the 77 term wouldn’t lead to a coup (even in the kennedy assassination coup sense), simply because the security state was being ripped apart and investigations were high, but if a dem president went after similar high ceiling lib goals (nationalization of oil comes to mind) i could see them getting couped, wether it be in a pr sense, or an assassination sense, or even more
 
Wolfram said:
You wouldn’t even need something as open as an assassination (because I think that would probably carry more risk than it did benefit, although that doesn’t mean that angry lone wolves wouldn’t try) - all you need is to turn some of that intelligence gathering apparatus to the effort of gathering dirt on the President to try to get him impeached, or at least make him look bad.
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You could but Church didn’t have major flaws like that, and again having a big majority would help in streamlining it along, especially as stuff like an even more beefed up Church Committee would still be bipartisan.
 
AnActualFam said:
You could but Church didn’t have major flaws like that, and again having a big majority would help in streamlining it along, especially as stuff like an even more beefed up Church Committee would still be bipartisan.
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That we know of. And that doesn't mean his associates wouldn't. Besides, forgery is also a common intelligence tactic. (And since we know from his 1980 re-election that Church was more than willing to become a Cold Warrior if he thought it would help him keep office, you don't even need to get him out of office all the way...)
 
Wolfram said:
That we know of. And that doesn't mean his associates wouldn't. Besides, forgery is also a common intelligence tactic. (And since we know from his 1980 re-election that Church was more than willing to become a Cold Warrior if he thought it would help him keep office, you don't even need to get him out of office all the way...)
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Ehhhh even then I don’t think Church wouldn’t go after the CIA and frame it as a good thing of reigning in elements that were “anti-American” be being “lone wolfs”. As said this could lead to some people who are outside the org like Lovestone.
 
gentleman biaggi said:
i think that a dem president really going after the cia in the 77 term wouldn’t lead to a coup (even in the kennedy assassination coup sense), simply because the security state was being ripped apart and investigations were high, but if a dem president went after similar high ceiling lib goals (nationalization of oil comes to mind) i could see them getting couped, wether it be in a pr sense, or an assassination sense, or even more
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agree mostly with what you're saying but there were so many suspicious deaths during the church committee and the house select committee on assassinations

additionally there's the otl business between carter and the military / security state over the issue of withdrawing from south korea

off topic but everyone talks about having frank church or fred harris as the alt-1976 democrat...but what about warren beatty? iotl people urged him to run for governor of california in 1974 and for president in 1976 as a stop-carter candidate.
 
Oppo said:
agree mostly with what you're saying but there were so many suspicious deaths during the church committee and the house select committee on assassinations

additionally there's the otl business between carter and the military / security state over the issue of withdrawing from south korea

off topic but everyone talks about having frank church or fred harris as the alt-1976 democrat...but what about warren beatty? iotl people urged him to run for governor of california in 1974 and for president in 1976 as a stop-carter candidate.
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You have talked about that before and it would be amazing that we would get like Beatty Republicans because he had charisma more than anyone else in the political sphere at the time.
 
imagining an interesting tl where new jersey gets swiped up in post 9/11 stuff and votes republican in a FL like manner

libs start telling democrats to get harder on “italian issues” to win back the italian vote

2001-2003: George Bush / Dick Cheney 💔 (Republican)
2003-2003: George Bush / vacant (Republican)
2003-2009: George Bush / Colin Powell (Republican)
2000 def. Al Gore / Joe Lieberman (Democratic)
2002: Semi-Autonomous Department of Homeland Security Created and chiefed by Bill Weld
2004: “Irishman Scandal” drops and hurts Democratic performance, later found to be false
2004 def. Wesley Clark / Joe Biden (Democratic)
2005: Equal Opportunity to Govern Amendment passed, allowing all naturalized citizens to serve as president, regardless of country of birth
2008: John Kitzhaber wins Democratic caucus against established candidates Al Gore and Hillary Clinton as “Outsider Candidate” amid economic downturn and growing resentment at Bush administration
2008: Joe Lieberman joins Republican ticket despite caucusing as a Democrat in the senate, kicked out of caucus with the support of Kitzhaber, however he refuses to join Republican caucus
2009-2013: John Kitzhaber / Rod Blagojevich (Democratic)
2008 def. John McCain / Joe Lieberman (Republican / Independent), Bob Barr / Chuck Baldwin (Libertarian / Constitution)
2009: FBI investigation of VP Blagojevich killed by newly appointed FBI director Ted Kulongoski. Scandal later revealed in book “Operation Polack”, leading to arrests of Kitzhaber and Kulongoski in 2023
2010: Republican gains in midterms somewhat dampened by Libertarian-Constitution “Tea Party” ticket, which wins several seats
2012: Deal made with VP Blagojevich to make him Secretary of Homeland Security to replace him with Dave Bing on 2012 Dem. ticket
2013-2017: Arnold Schwarzenegger / John Cornyn (Republican)
2012 def. John Kitzhaber / Dave Bing (Democratic), Ron Paul / Chuck Baldwin (Tea Party)
2013: Democratic party supporters attempt storming of Pennsylvania state capitol over election “irregularities”
2014: Secretary of Homeland Security Jim Gilmore presents (later proven false) information of Kurdish genocide in Syria, beginning invasion of Syria
2015: Democratic-Tea Party alliance elects speaker Tulsi Gabbard to investigate Schwarzenegger invasion of Syria, discuss impeachment and strengthening of War Powers act
2016: Joint Democratic-Tea Party alliance forms behind Rod Blagojevich candidacy in 2016. Agreed upon points are drug reform, expansion of the War Powers Act, exiting Syria, and ending of NAFTA, small left wing movement led by Bernie Sanders splits from Democrats over issue
2017-2021: Rod Blagojevich / Rand Paul (Democratic / Tea Party)
2021-2023: Rod Blagojevich / Ron Wyden (Democratic)
2023-2023: Ron Wyden / vacant (Democratic)
2023-2025: Ron Wyden / Rocky Anderson (Democratic)
2016 def. Arnold Schwarzenegger / John Cornyn (Republican), Bernie Sanders / Paul Wellstone (Justice)
2017: United States exits Syria
2017: President Blagojevich federally legalizes Marijuana through executive order
2017: War Powers Act II signed by president, forcing a 2/3rds majority needed in both houses to declare war
2018: Tea Party officially breaks alliance with Democrats, wins big in 2018 midterms
2019: Attorney General Dennis Kucinich arrests coal mining executive Don Blankenship after mines are shut down due to unionization
2020 def. John Kasich / Megan McCain (Republican), Austen Petersen / Ted Cruz (Tea Party)
2022: “Operation Polack” revealed during midterms, while Republicans gain big, they lose heavily among eastern European constituencies
2023: Pres. Blagojevich resigns over corruption scandal, despite facing jail time he remains a folk hero among WWC voters for policies protecting midwest/coal miners

2002-2004: Jim McGreevy (Democratic)
2004-2006: Richard Cordey (Democratic)
2001 def. Bret Schundler (Republican)
2004: McGreevy Scandal
2006-2014: Doug Forrester (Republican)
2005 def. Richard Cordey (Democratic)
2007: New Jersey Devils leave state over dispute with Newark Mayor Cory Booker, move to Milwaukee
2009 def. Rob Andrews (Democratic)
2014-2022: Anthony Bucco (Republican)
2013 def. Shelly Adler (Democratic)
2017 def. Upendra Chivukula (Democratic)
2022-????: David West (Democratic)
2021 def. John DiMaio (Republican)

ok this had nothing to do with what i was talking about
 
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gentleman biaggi said:
imagining an interesting tl where new jersey gets swiped up in post 9/11 stuff and votes republican in a FL like manner

libs start telling democrats to get harder on “italian issues” to win back the italian vote

2001-2003: George Bush / Dick Cheney 💔 (Republican)
2003-2003: George Bush / vacant (Republican)
2003-2009: George Bush / Colin Powell (Republican)
2000 def. Al Gore / Joe Lieberman (Democratic)
2002: Semi-Autonomous Department of Homeland Security Created and chiefed by Bill Weld
2004: “Irishman Scandal” drops and hurts Democratic performance, later found to be false
2004 def. Wesley Clark / Joe Biden (Democratic)
2005: Equal Opportunity to Govern Amendment passed, allowing all naturalized citizens to serve as president, regardless of country of birth
2008: John Kitzhaber wins Democratic caucus against established candidates Al Gore and Hillary Clinton as “Outsider Candidate” amid economic downturn and growing resentment at Bush administration
2008: Joe Lieberman joins Republican ticket despite caucusing as a Democrat in the senate, kicked out of caucus with the support of Kitzhaber, however he refuses to join Republican caucus
2009-2013: John Kitzhaber / Rod Blagojevich (Democratic)
2008 def. John McCain / Joe Lieberman (Republican / Independent), Bob Barr / Chuck Baldwin (Libertarian / Constitution)
2009: FBI investigation of VP Blagojevich killed by newly appointed FBI director Ted Kulongoski. Scandal later revealed in book “Operation Polack”, leading to arrests of Kitzhaber and Kulongoski in 2023
2010: Republican gains in midterms somewhat dampened by Libertarian-Constitution “Tea Party” ticket, which wins several seats
2012: Deal made with VP Blagojevich to make him Secretary of Homeland Security to replace him with Dave Bing on 2012 Dem. ticket
2013-2017: Arnold Schwarzenegger / John Cornyn (Republican)
2012 def. John Kitzhaber / Dave Bing (Democratic), Ron Paul / Chuck Baldwin (Tea Party)
2013: Democratic party supporters attempt storming of Pennsylvania state capitol over election “irregularities”
2014: Secretary of Homeland Security Jim Gilmore presents (later proven false) information of Kurdish genocide in Syria, beginning invasion of Syria
2015: Democratic-Tea Party alliance elects speaker Tulsi Gabbard to investigate Schwarzenegger invasion of Syria, discuss impeachment and strengthening of War Powers act
2016: Joint Democratic-Tea Party alliance forms behind Rod Blagojevich candidacy in 2016. Agreed upon points are drug reform, expansion of the War Powers Act, exiting Syria, and ending of NAFTA, small left wing movement led by Bernie Sanders splits from Democrats over issue
2017-2021: Rod Blagojevich / Rand Paul (Democratic / Tea Party)
2021-2023: Rod Blagojevich / Ron Wyden (Democratic)
2023-2023: Ron Wyden / vacant (Democratic)
2023-2025: Ron Wyden / Rocky Anderson (Democratic)
2016 def. Arnold Schwarzenegger / John Cornyn (Republican), Bernie Sanders / Paul Wellstone (Justice)
2017: United States exits Syria
2017: President Blagojevich federally legalizes Marijuana through executive order
2017: War Powers Act II signed by president, forcing a 2/3rds majority needed in both houses to declare war
2018: Tea Party officially breaks alliance with Democrats, wins big in 2018 midterms
2019: Attorney General Dennis Kucinich arrests coal mining executive Don Blankenship after mines are shut down due to unionization
2020 def. John Kasich / Megan McCain (Republican), Austen Petersen / Ted Cruz (Tea Party)
2022: “Operation Polack” revealed during midterms, while Republicans gain big, they lose heavily among eastern European constituencies
2023: Pres. Blagojevich resigns over corruption scandal, despite facing jail time he remains a folk hero among WWC voters for policies protecting midwest/coal miners

2002-2004: Jim McGreevy (Democratic)
2004-2006: Richard Cordey (Democratic)
2001 def. Bret Schundler (Republican)
2004: McGreevy Scandal
2006-2014: Doug Forrester (Republican)
2005 def. Richard Cordey (Democratic)
2007: New Jersey Devils leave state over dispute with Newark Mayor Cory Booker, move to Milwaukee
2009 def. Rob Andrews (Democratic)
2014-2022: Anthony Bucco (Republican)
2013 def. Shelly Adler (Democratic)
2017 def. Upendra Chivukula (Democratic)
2022-????: David West (Democratic)
2021 def. John DiMaio (Republican)

ok this had nothing to do with what i was talking about
Click to expand...
is it weird that the thing i'm most excited about here is the milwaukee devils
 
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