Biaggi’s Other Opium Den

[Oppo]

i was a 13 year old who listened to jay electronica and who had a huey newton phone background CONVINCED that hillary clinton was the best choice in 2016 and that bernie sanders was evil

The other Jay Electronica listener that was a Hillary supporter was anti-Bernie just for the antisemitism

 

[gentleman biaggi]

The other Jay Electronica listener that was a Hillary supporter was anti-Bernie just for the antisemitism

they’d obviously be an o’malley-fellure voter

 

[Comrade Izaac]

i was the only reddit atheist not on reddit who went from a staunch weird market libertarian type to probably the most annoying type of 2016 bernie supporter. wore a suit to class. that type of asshole. i was 12 at the time. im pretty sure i skipped like ten years to become a college millennial archetype as a gen z kid lmao

then i came out of the closet and found the good word of Christ and here we are

 

[theev]

i was a 13 year old who listened to jay electronica and who had a huey newton phone background CONVINCED that hillary clinton was the best choice in 2016 and that bernie sanders was evil

least eccentric american voter

 

[Catalunya]

I really liked Bernie when he announced his candidacy in 2015, as I was a 15-year old Communist at the time, then I went through a shift from far-left to centre-right in the next 18 months, but weirdly always supported Bernie.

Now I’m a succdem

 

[Nyvis]

Bernie was cool when he was the most leftism people could imagine in 2016. He was less cool when he didn't run as a total break again in 2020 and beyond that, he now represents the picture of an American left that thinks it's one election away from victory (it isn't) rather than the very much necessary act of mass party building it's going to need to get anything done.

 

[Comrade Izaac]

He was less cool when he didn't run as a total break again in 2020 and beyond that, he now represents the picture of an American left that thinks it's one election away from victory (it isn't) rather than the very much necessary act of mass party building it's going to need to get anything done.

i think taking only a quick look at the political program of the DSA, the main political development of the Sanders campaign being the rise of the DSA as a major and competent political outfit, will disprove this perspective

 

[Nyvis]

i think taking only a quick look at the political program of the DSA, the main political development of the Sanders campaign being the rise of the DSA as a major and competent political outfit, will disprove this perspective

Well no, that's my point? Sanders was the impulse, and his campaign was defiitely valuable for that reason. But that method is now the framework the DSA needs to free itself from to become its own thing and capitalize on that impulse. There's still a significant subset of DSA which is just an overgrown Sanders campaign and they're not the part that contribute to building an independent program and structure.

Sanders' campaign gave birth to a revitalized DSA and it now needs to move out of its dad's house and get its own thing going.

 

[Comrade Izaac]

Well no, that's my point? Sanders was the impulse, and his campaign was defiitely valuable for that reason. But that method is now the framework the DSA needs to free itself from to become its own thing and capitalize on that impulse. There's still a significant subset of DSA which is just an overgrown Sanders campaign and they're not the part that contribute to building an independent program and structure.

Sanders' campaign gave birth to a revitalized DSA and it now needs to move out of its dad's house and get its own thing going.

but that critique has no actual basis in reality whatsoever. the DSA has spent the last two years building an electoral movement with explicit support from labor in an attempt to build a mass workers movement. i don't remember the last time a DSA official mentioned Sanders outside of retrospect. every ideological current and working group now has its sights set and essentially solely dedicates it's focus to building a mass movement within the working class. for some a winning presidential campaign is part of that and i agree that it would be helpful but noone is naive enough to believe that that is the focus or even a major goal of the movement at this point and u see this reflected in what the DSA spends its time doing; labor organizing, criminal justice work, community events, disaster relief, anti-fascist mobilization, etc.

the DSA is still living in it's dad's house bc it's trying to get it's degree first and doesn't have the money to move out

 

[Nyvis]

but that critique has no actual basis in reality whatsoever. the DSA has spent the last two years building an electoral movement with explicit support from labor in an attempt to build a mass workers movement. i don't remember the last time a DSA official mentioned Sanders outside of retrospect. every ideological current and working group now has its sights set and essentially solely dedicates it's focus to building a mass movement within the working class. for some a winning presidential campaign is part of that and i agree that it would be helpful but noone is naive enough to believe that that is the focus or even a major goal of the movement at this point and u see this reflected in what the DSA spends its time doing; labor organizing, criminal justice work, community events, disaster relief, anti-fascist mobilization, etc.

the DSA is still living in it's dad's house bc it's trying to get it's degree first and doesn't have the money to move out

I'm basing myself on discussion with people I know in DSA who report on its factional struggles, especially for control of the national organs. It's less of an issue for local chapters, which are the ones doing most of the stuff you describe than for the national organs that have to decide on global strategy.

They're probably reporting on it with their own factional biases, and even then I agree this is a waning tendency in the movement. I'm not doomposting about it, to be clear. I think it's a work the US left is doing. I just think that people who still think Sanders is "it" for the US left today are not in that process. DSA is the better part of Sanders' coattails so it's not surprising they're the ones working on what I think is necessary. There's other people who followed in Sanders' wake who haven't done nearly as well because they saw it as an end rather than a start.

 

[Comrade Izaac]

think it's a work the US left is doing. I just think that people who still think Sanders is "it" for the US left today are not in that process. DSA is the better part of Sanders' coattails so it's not surprising they're the ones working on what I think is necessary. There's other people who followed in Sanders' wake who haven't done nearly as well because they saw it as an end rather than a start.

Bernie isn't "it" but he is the most successful Social Democratic politician in America since like Estes Kefauver was around and u can't fault a project for looking at a model like that after what was essentially 30 years of political conflict between barren neo-liberals and Christian Right pyschos and deciding to adopt it as their primary political mode. can't ever forget the man for what he's done for the American and global working class either; there's a reason everyone from South American Soc21cent types to Leninists in Europe and Left Populists in Africa sing his praises

 

[Kerguelen]

wikipedia is really funny because of how it wants to avoid alternate theories or something like look at the phrasing of this:



this makes me think of a really funny tl where mahoney somehow unites the democrats and agnew loses, but is for some reason still tapped by nixon (pause) for vice president


The Greatest Loser - Or, the Political History of Spiro Agnew

Political Career of Spiro Agnew
1962-1966: Executive of Baltimore County, Maryland: Republican
1962 def. Michael Birmingham (Democratic)
1966: Republican candidate for Governor of Maryland
1966 faced: George Mahoney (Democratic)
1967-1968: Private Citizen (Maryland): Republican
1968: Republican nominee for vice-president
1968 def. Fred Harris (Democratic)[1], Ezra T. Benson (American Independent)
1969-1970: Acting President of the United States: Republican
1970-1973: Vice President of the United States: Republican
Serving alongside: Hubert Humphrey (Democratic)
1972: Republican primary candidate for President
1972 faced: Ronald Reagan, Nelson Rockefeller, Thruston Morton, Jim Rhodes
1972: Independent candidate for President
Running with: Mark Hatfield
1972 faced: Hubert Humphrey (Democratic), Ronald Reagan (Republican), George Wallace (American Independent)
1973-1978: Private Citizen (Florida): Republican
1979-1985: Governor of Florida: Republican
Serving alongside: Jack Eckerd
1978 def. Bruce Smathers (Democratic), Claude Kirk (Independent)
1982 def. Bob Graham (Democratic)
1985-1990: President of the United States, Republican
Serving alongside: Lewis Lehrman (1985-1986[2]), vacant (1986-1987), Thomas Moorer (1986-1990)
1984 def. Edward Mezvinsky (Democratic)[1], James Maher (National Conservative)
1988 def. William Roy (Democratic), Julian Bond (New Alliance), James Maher (National Conservative)[3]
1990 Impeachment: Successful [69-22, 301-119]
1990-1993: Prisoner [Washington D.C.], Republican
1993-1996: Private Citizen, United America[4]

Presidents of the United States:
vacant/Spiro Agnew (Republican) 1969-1970
Hubert Humphrey/Spiro Agnew (Democratic/Republican) 1970-1973
1968 def. Hubert Humphrey/Fred Harris (Democratic), Richard Nixon/Spiro Agnew (Republican), George Wallace/Ezra T. Benson (American Independent)
Hubert Humphrey/John C. West (Democratic) 1973-1977
1972 def. Ronald Reagan/Nelson Rockefeller (Republican), Spiro Agnew/Mark Hatfield (Independent), George Wallace/Ezra T. Benson (American Independent)
Ed Davis/Ralph Tyler Smith (Republican) 1977-1981
1976 def. John C. West/Milton Shapp (Democratic)
Edward Mezvinsky/Lloyd Bentsen (Democratic) 1981-1985
1980 def. Ed Davis/Ralph Tyler Smith (Republican)
Spiro Agnew/Lewis Lehrman[2] (Republican) 1985-1986
Spiro Agnew/vacant (Republican) 1986-1987
Spiro Agnew/Thomas Moorer (Republican) 1987-1990
Thomas Moorer/vacant (Republican) 1990-1990
Thomas Moorer/Richard Cheney (Republican) 1990-1993
1984 def. Edward Mezvinsky (Democratic)[1], James Maher (National Conservative)
1988 def. William Roy (Democratic), Julian Bond (New Alliance), James Maher (National Conservative)[3]
1990 Impeachment: Successful [69-22, 301-119]
Rudy Perpich/Wayne Dowdy (Democratic) 1993-2001
1992 def. Thomas Moorer/Richard Cheney (Republican)
1996 def. Oliver North/Bob Dornan (United America), Pierre Rinfret/Lowell Weicker (Independence)

idk what else happens but israel cooked


[1] Won popular vote
[2] Killed by Albanian Mob
[3] Finished below 5%, but finished second in Kansas
[4] After the impeachment of Agnew, the mainstream of the Republican Party changed the name to the "United America Party", but this prompted a split, as the UAP was generally more conservative, and led by "paleoconservative" thinkers. As such, the "Independence Party" was formed by more liberal ex-Republicans. Neither would enter office for more than a decade.

Aw nah they got the gold standard n shit

 

[gentleman biaggi]

2009-2017: Barack Obama (Democratic)
2008 def. (with Joe Biden) John McCain (Republican)
2012 def. (with Joe Biden) Mitt Romney (Republican)
2017-2021: Hillary Clinton (Democratic)
2016 def. (with Robert Kennedy Jr.) Mike Huckabee (Republican)
2021-2029: Robert Kennedy Jr. (Free the People)
2020 def. [backed by Republican] (with Michael Flynn) Hillary Clinton (Democratic), Mitt Romney (Independent)
2024 def. (with Michael Flynn) Elizabeth Warren (Democratic), Ted Cruz (Republican), Sarah Iannarone (Green)
2029-2029: Tina Kotek (Democratic-elect)
2028 def. (with Nina Turner) Michael Flynn (Free the People)
2029-2030: Michael Flynn (January 6 Movement)

 

[gentleman biaggi]

The American Socialism: New Left vs Old Left

1965-1969: Lyndon Johnson (Democratic)
1964 def. (with Michael Harrington) Barry Goldwater (Republican)
1969-1977: Michael Harrington (Democratic)
1968 def. (with Sargent Shriver) Ronald Reagan (Republican), George Wallace (American), Eugene McCarthy (New)
1972 def. (with Sargent Shriver) Eugene McCarthy (New), Bill Scranton [replacing George Hansen] (Republican), John Rarick (American)
1977-1981: William Coffin (New)
1976 def. (with Jerry Brown) Sargent Shriver (Democratic), Ed Brooke (Republican), Lester Maddox (American)
1981-1985: Ted Kennedy (Democratic)
1980 def. (with Marjorie McKeithen) William Coffin (New), Pete McCloskey (Republican), Lester Maddox (American)
1985-1993: Jerry Rubin (New)
1984 def. (with Oscar Acosta) Ted Kennedy (Democratic), Larry McDonald (American), Lee Dreyfus (Republican)
1988 def. (with Oscar Acosta) Owen Bieber (Democratic), Larry McDonald (United Opposition)
1993-2001: Ed Garvey (Democratic)
1992 def. (with Harlan Baker) Oscar Acosta (New), David Duke (United Opposition)
1996 def. (with Harlan Baker) Julian Bond (New), David Duke (United Opposition)

 

[gentleman biaggi]

basically in this tl the kennedys and roosevelts [hyde park version] switch places, with fdr sr. becoming known as a strange foreign policy guy in the smith administration later known for resigning over his support for peace between the west and soviet-kmt-chilean alliance in the second great war, with eliott becoming a visionary politician.

meanwhile, JPKII survives the second great war, becomes a national hero, and after a term as governor of massachusetts, becomes president during an economic crisis and “cold war” with the empire of japan

a few years later, elliot roosevelt, the liberal senator who, along with robert king high and claude pepper, helped shift floridian politics, becomes president but gets shot up by suspicious elements. his brother james runs against his vice president, robert holmes, after an american war against japanese-backed forces in kenya goes sour. he’s killed as well. john roosevelt is a senator who often breaks with his family’s politics, and dies in a boat crash two years after james’ death.

all of JPKII’s kids become rfk jr.-types, with JPKIII attempting to form his own “america first” party in 1988, before being arrested for insurance fraud

also gerald lk smith is ittl henry wallace and republicans are all weird one world government advocates

alf landon gets america to join the EEC as VP

Presidents of the United States:
1933-1945: Al Smith (Democratic)
1932 def. (with John Nance Garner) Herbert Hoover (Republican), Norman Thomas (Socialist)
1936 def. (with John Nance Garner) Hamilton Fish III (Republican), Norman Thomas (Socialist)
1940 def. (with Gerald L.K. Smith) Unpledged Electors (South Carolina Democratic), Herbert Hoover (Republican)
1945-1953: Joseph H. Ball (Republican)
1944 def. (with Alf Landon) Noble Gregory (Democratic)
1948 def. (with Alf Landon) Averell Harriman (Democratic), Gerald L.K. Smith (Union)
1953-1965: Joseph Kennedy Jr. (Democratic)
1952 def. (with James Allen) Alf Landon (Republican)
1956 def. (with James Allen) Victor Anderson (Republican)
1960 def. (with Walter Reuther) Joseph Dodge (Republican), Strom Thurmond (Southern Democratic)
1965-1969: Jacob Javits (Republican)
1964 def. (with Ethan Shepley) Walter Reuther (Democratic), Billy Hargis (National Conservative)
1969-1971(1): Elliott Roosevelt (Democratic)
1971-1977: Robert Holmes (Democratic)
1968 def. (with Robert Holmes) Jacob Javits (Republican), Billy Hargis (National Conservative)
1972 def. (with Robert Wagner) James Brickley (Republican)
1977-1983(2): Paul Laxalt (Republican)
1983-1985: John B. Anderson (Republican)
1976 def. (with John B. Anderson) Robert Wagner (Democratic), John M. King (Independence)
1980 def. (with John B. Anderson) John Connally (Democratic)
1985-1993: Roman Pucinski (Democratic)
1984 def. (with Bob Graham) John B. Anderson (Republican)
1988 def. (with Bob Graham) Edgar Shannon (Republican), Joseph Kennedy III (America First)


(1) Assassinated
(2) Resigned over connections to Las Vegas Mob

Italics denote candidates who received 5% or more of the popular vote but 0 electoral votes

 

[gentleman biaggi]

til the prohibition party is anti-brexit

 

[gentleman biaggi]

the most underrated part about robert kennedy jr's long transition to being Like That(tm) is the fact that he did FUCKING HEROIN as assistant AD

i like to imagine an insane tl where rfk becomes president much later (say 1992) and rfk jr just becomes his hunter

of course because these are the kennedys, rfk jr still gets to be like ambassador to jamaica or something

there’s also the fact that he was considered to be obama’s EPA director, which is a frankly hilarious turn

lots of kennedy lore !

 

[theev]

the most underrated part about robert kennedy jr's long transition to being Like That(tm) is the fact that he did FUCKING HEROIN as assistant AD

i like to imagine an insane tl where rfk becomes president much later (say 1992) and rfk jr just becomes his hunter

of course because these are the kennedys, rfk jr still gets to be like ambassador to jamaica or something

there’s also the fact that he was considered to be obama’s EPA director, which is a frankly hilarious turn

lots of kennedy lore !

RFK as Biden
Pat Buchanan as Trump
Carl Stokes as Obama
Poppy Bush as Dubya

 

[Comrade Izaac]

Carl Stokes as Obama

Richard Hatcher is probably a better early Obama analogue than Stokes tbh

 

[Oppo]

the most underrated part about robert kennedy jr's long transition to being Like That(tm) is the fact that he did FUCKING HEROIN as assistant AD

i like to imagine an insane tl where rfk becomes president much later (say 1992) and rfk jr just becomes his hunter

of course because these are the kennedys, rfk jr still gets to be like ambassador to jamaica or something

there’s also the fact that he was considered to be obama’s EPA director, which is a frankly hilarious turn

lots of kennedy lore !

My favorite is that there was nearly a Kennedy family feud primary between him and Andrew Cuomo for NY-AG in 2006