CREDO!
I'm a big of A Very British Coup but I was quite disappointed by The Friends of Harry Perkins for exactly the reasons you've said there; it feels like Perkins didn't happen and it seems to take place back into OTL but with other mentions about Labour not being in government since Perkins' day either. The continuity issues really frustrated me as someone who was a big fan of the original book.So recently I was thinking about A Very British Coup and the Friends of Harry Perkins and how it would work with ‘real life’ people. Like how do you get to that scenario. So I made a list...and I realised how weird the A Very British Coup Universe is. According to the story, despite having a Hard Left Wing PM in 1988, Brexit and New Labour still happen.
It was an odd one, references to New Labour happening but also not and just weird stuff like that. It’s odd that in a world that had Perkins, Brexit and Trump still happen. It’s an odd one. I still like The Friends of Harry Perkins but it would have worked better as it’s own thing (at least Chris Mullin admits at the start that his new work is odd but he just wanted to do a Brexit based one).I'm a big of A Very British Coup but I was quite disappointed by The Friends of Harry Perkins for exactly the reasons you've said there; it feels like Perkins didn't happen and it seems to take place back into OTL but with other mentions about Labour not being in government since Perkins' day either. The continuity issues really frustrated me as someone who was a big fan of the original book.
That’s a good one, either one could be the POD for the two lists in question. Just wanted a way for the Left to still have a say in a world where Thatcher existed and so having Foot bounce before the ‘83 election means the Left Wing and it’s manifesto aren’t blamed as a result.If you wanted a PoD that wasn't rooted in my dear Michael's death, there's always a poor performance in the 1983 Darlington by-election. I believe that @AlfieJ started a TL about Foot resigning the leadership following a Labour loss there, which was on the cards at the time.
Not sure, I remember reading that was a possible name for them and I like it (also I find it mildly humorous). Also it’s always a nice indicator that this world is rather different than our own.Just a side question really that I've been meaning to ask; why the preference for the Liberal Democrats becoming the Social Liberals instead in a lot of your lists?
The fact that it contradicts itself during the book was a particular peeve of mine. It forgets its own history during the story itself. It's disappointing really though the fact that Mullin admits this doesn't necessarily make it better; it's an admission it's not perfect and it's flawed but not in those ways.It was an odd one, references to New Labour happening but also not and just weird stuff like that. It’s odd that in a world that had Perkins, Brexit and Trump still happen. It’s an odd one. I still like The Friends of Harry Perkins but it would have worked better as it’s own thing (at least Chris Mullin admits at the start that his new work is odd but he just wanted to do a Brexit based one).
I'm always very protective of Michael really, so it's one of those moments I'd like to see him not die.That’s a good one, either one could be the POD for the two lists in question. Just wanted a way for the Left to still have a say in a world where Thatcher existed and so having Foot bounce before the ‘83 election means the Left Wing and it’s manifesto aren’t blamed as a result.
Wasn't one of the things about Perkins was that he was a cabinet minister before resigning on principle though? Benn may have too much baggage but he was also the clearest basis for the character, even the Energy Secretary appointment for that matter. The background was a clear divergence between the two. Eric Heffer might fit the bill closer for left-wing, government/cabinet experience, working-class background.In other things Skinner was chosen because he’s probably the closest in real life we have to a Harry Perkins style figure and I could see him be a better figure for Labour’s Left to coalesce around post Foot (Benn has too much baggage).
That's fair enough. I just noticed that it seemed to be your go-to for them a lot of the time so thought to ask really.Not sure, I remember reading that was a possible name for them and I like it (also I find it mildly humorous). Also it’s always a nice indicator that this world is rather different than our own.
I think I'd lean more towards Ver. 1, although I do like both of them for the record.Also quick question, which list would you prefer? Version 1 or 2.
Yeah, it’s a shame that Mullin got sloppy. He’s a good writer otherwise.The fact that it contradicts itself during the book was a particular peeve of mine. It forgets its own history during the story itself. It's disappointing really though the fact that Mullin admits this doesn't necessarily make it better; it's an admission it's not perfect and it's flawed but not in those ways.
Understandable, Michael is certainly someone you wouldn’t want to see die. Though given how he was nearly 100 when he died I’m sure ATL’s can kill him off earlier.I'm always very protective of Michael really, so it's one of those moments I'd like to see him not die.
True Heffer could work (though Skinner’s Derbyshire charm is closer to Perkin’s Yorkshire charm over Heffer’s grumpy Liverpool ways, also he’s not the fittest lad by the late 80s), I’ll put him in the back pocket for a later date (if I ever want to do another one of theses because I hate my self it seems). I do remember reading that Skinner was considered for a cabinet position in Otl in the Callaghan Cabinet so maybe in these lists Skinner takes the offer but quickly resigns out principle (because Skinner would definitely do that).Wasn't one of the things about Perkins was that he was a cabinet minister before resigning on principle though? Benn may have too much baggage but he was also the clearest basis for the character, even the Energy Secretary appointment for that matter. The background was a clear divergence between the two. Eric Heffer might fit the bill closer for left-wing, government/cabinet experience, working-class background.
It’s alright, I have my habits. Though not my favourite Lib Dem’s name reimagining (my favourite is probably Progressive Democrats I believe from list I did a bit ago).That's fair enough. I just noticed that it seemed to be your go-to for them a lot of the time so thought to ask really.
Thanks, Version 1 was me trying find how to awkwardly shoe horn both stories so they make sense. Geoff Hoon as New Labour man and Emma Hardy as Labour’s first female leader are probably my favourite picks I’ve done due to that pressure.I think I'd lean more towards Ver. 1, although I do like both of them for the record
Happy to answer questions about this world and how we got here, I prefer doing that over doing a big block of text sometimes.
Sturgeon steps down in 2021 and Joanna Cherry takes over as the wheels fall off the SNP machine. Cherry manages to anger the Progressive Wing and the Fundamentalist Wing by continuing the Gradualist approach combined with an agenda that includes laws that actively discriminate against Trans people.What happened to the SNP?
Has any prediction like that ever come true though?One thing I don’t get about these future lists is how the Conservatives survive past 2040 with the generational collapse they’ve set out for themselves. All of them I’ve read are great work but I suppose this is a suspension of disbelief thing.
I think they'll always be a Centre Right party of some kind in British politics and until there is a logical alternative the Conservatives fit that void. I think the Conservatives could survive past 2040, though with numerous rebrandings, coalitions with Right Wing Populist parties and all that jazz. I could see the Conservatives existing as a rump party by the 2040s but still existing in some way.One thing I don’t get about these future lists is how the Conservatives survive past 2040 with the generational collapse they’ve set out for themselves. All of them I’ve read are great work but I suppose this is a suspension of disbelief thing.
I don’t know of any party of power that’s been stupid enough to let it get to this stage before. There‘s a first time for everything.Has any prediction like that ever come true though?
One thing I don’t get about these future lists is how the Conservatives survive past 2040 with the generational collapse they’ve set out for themselves. All of them I’ve read are great work but I suppose this is a suspension of disbelief thing.
One thing I don’t get about these future lists is how the Conservatives survive past 2040 with the generational collapse they’ve set out for themselves. All of them I’ve read are great work but I suppose this is a suspension of disbelief thing.
To be honest, I assume loads of millennials and then Gen Z are going to vote Tory as they get older despite not liking them in youth - just as previous generations had - as the other side becomes strange and confusing to them (and also as more get property).
Current trends can change, but they don’t change for no reason at all. The Conservatives won only 3% less among 18 to 24-year-olds than their national average in 1997. In 2019, they won 26% less. They beat Labour in the eighties, yes, but that was still give or take a few points in line with their national average.Right, because it's not like people's politics change as they get older or that current trends themselves are subject to change, is it?
Labour has had a dominant vote share with young voters since the '92 election. That's nearly thirty years ago now, and we currently have a Conservative government with a healthy majority. The Tories were also beating Labour in the eighties amongst under twenty-fours and then... that changed.
The vast majority of people form their political opinions while they are in their twenties.
It's clearly the case that the voting of generations does not stay static as they grow older.