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Least favorite alt-history story?

I mean, one thing that makes unusually bad TLs unusually bad is their sheer length. It means that they take their fundamentally unsound premises to bizarre directions. It meant that Queen Nixon went from “Eisenhower passed the Voting Rights Act with no backlash whatsoever” to “Queen Nixon” to “Mandela supports apartheid”.

To "the Notzis take over Germany, and the Hohenzollerns are back, in king form!", to "WWIII happens, and the Russians don't use their nukes until close to the end, and then only a small amount that get shot down by functional Star Wars, yes ITTL, we have an operational Death Star," to "a plague strikes those pesky brown southern nations" to "Pinochet dies shoving a 'communist' out a helicopter' to "Ted Bundy is the President, and he has Donald Trump in his administration".

With so much more going on.

I'm giving the whole thing a read right now actually. I did the math out to see how much I was in for first. I'm ~500 pages in right now. I'm planning on writing a sort of reflection/review of it when I finish which I'll either post here or on a place like sufficient velocity.

Good luck. I will pray for you. Because, as I keep noting, it is just awful on every single level.
 
Thanks but you don't need to be the one telling me that.

At this point I'm pretty inclined to title my piece on it New Deal Coalition Retained: The Worst Alternate History Timeline

I mean it is. As I have noted, on numerous occasions, it's not just the terrible work with history and the story that makes no sense; it's not just the awful, vile politics; it's not the dull, plodding prose and shitty wikiboxes that almost seem to be attempting to bludgeon the reader into just accepting what they're reading through sheer boredom; it's not even the combination of all those things. It's the meanness behind it all. This isn't being written to be enjoyed, it's being written to flip off anyone to the author's left, so he and his cryptofascist buddies can tell themselves how kewl and edgy they are.

Though I should warn you that the second part of the TL, Queen Nixon in Nuke-Free WWIII is probably the series' nadir. So yes, you have WORSE reading ahead of you.
 
I mean it is. As I have noted, on numerous occasions, it's not just the terrible work with history and the story that makes no sense; it's not just the awful, vile politics; it's not the dull, plodding prose and shitty wikiboxes that almost seem to be attempting to bludgeon the reader into just accepting what they're reading through sheer boredom; it's not even the combination of all those things. It's the meanness behind it all. This isn't being written to be enjoyed, it's being written to flip off anyone to the author's left, so he and his cryptofascist buddies can tell themselves how kewl and edgy they are.

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Queen Nixon in... Fonda Gets The Chair Because... Boomer Conspiracy Theories

Remember, my original name for Queen Nixon in Ted Bundy is Your Alt-Right President was Queen Nixon in Pinochet Takes a Helicopter Ride. You have to pick the outstanding awfulness of a section, and frequently it's an embarrassment of... riches, I suppose.
 
You guys are really obsessed.

It is, in the abstract, fascinatingly bad, not least of all because of how fractally bad it is, with every failure of quality leading to further failures. Awful racist TLs like Enoch's National Front and Greenhorn's various Second American Civil War TLs are actually better done, and those things are both terrible.

In the abstract, because again, it is a fucking chore to read. The Congressman can't write worth a damn--his disciples are even worse.
 
Despite my hatred for the timeline, I do get sick of hearing about Queen Nixon on the "worst of AH" threads, because at this point the bulk of the major criticisms have been made, and most of it's vile content has been singled out for... several months now, I'd bet. At a certain point it's just beating a dead horse, except I'd wager at this point we've beaten the horse into a thin red smear and then scorched the smear with a napalm shower.
 
Despite my hatred for the timeline, I do get sick of hearing about Queen Nixon on the "worst of AH" threads, because at this point the bulk of the major criticisms have been made, and most of it's vile content has been singled out for... several months now, I'd bet. At a certain point it's just beating a dead horse, except I'd wager at this point we've beaten the horse into a thin red smear and then scorched the smear with a napalm shower.
Thai is pretty much the core of the issue with still going over with it. It's not even like there's any new chaos with it or anything since this thread even started. It would be one thing if it devolved into Nuking Mecca or something but it's not.
 
Thai is pretty much the core of the issue with still going over with it. It's not even like there's any new chaos with it or anything since this thread even started. It would be one thing if it devolved into Nuking Mecca or something but it's not.

While it's a deserving target, it's also an undeniable safe and easy target. And because it's so shallow, I'm finding it hard to really critique in full.

I've pondered doing a look/post at the WWIII itself and talking about how the wikibox numbers range from too small (only four divisions worth of tanks in a gigantic frontal offensive) to too big (millions-strong armies), but it'd just amount to using many paragraphs to say "The author piggybacked on the conventional WWIII trend going on at that time and adopted the most basic trappings of the rivet-counting 'Icelandic' story, but failed even to get those kinds of details right".
 
Thai is pretty much the core of the issue with still going over with it. It's not even like there's any new chaos with it or anything since this thread even started. It would be one thing if it devolved into Nuking Mecca or something but it's not.
Give Congresscritter a few minutes to have Chief Justice Schalfly be convinced by old men Martin Luther King Jr and Malcolm X that nuking Mecca is the only way to help the GOP win the 2000 election and prevent Skynet from activating.
 
Despite my hatred for the timeline, I do get sick of hearing about Queen Nixon on the "worst of AH" threads, because at this point the bulk of the major criticisms have been made, and most of it's vile content has been singled out for... several months now, I'd bet. At a certain point it's just beating a dead horse, except I'd wager at this point we've beaten the horse into a thin red smear and then scorched the smear with a napalm shower.

I'd say a problem with that is definitely in how people re-hash the same criticisms each time (conservative civil rights movement, Fonda execution, Mandela supporting Apartheid, no nukes WWIII). But now that I'm reading it in full I'm seeing there's a lot of stuff that people don't really talk about like how an Alt-SLA murders Mariska Hargitay's (of Law and Order: SVU fame) dad and it's alluded that she will become a fascist President of the US in the future, or how Reagan repeals the Pendleton Civil Service Act, or how Jacques Massu's France keeps Algeria with nothing to note the massive slaughter requisite of a move like that.

I'd agree with @Space Oddity in noting the massive depth to just how absurdly wrong-feeling the whole thing is.
 
But now that I'm reading it in full I'm seeing there's a lot of stuff that people don't really talk about like how an Alt-SLA murders Mariska Hargitay's (of Law and Order: SVU fame) dad and it's alluded that she will become a fascist President of the US in the future

And only freedom fighters Christopher Meloni under the nom de guerre of “Dick Wolf” and his mysterious right hand man, “Ice T” can stop the manical maneater Rodham-Hargitay from ruining America by reimplementing the
Pendleton Civil Service Act.
 
Amateur writer writes something long, massively implausible, poorly written, and displaying their own political hobby horses. There's a shocker.

Um, does that really justify this constant harping on about it?

Well, again, you've kind of left out the sheer nastiness that motivates the writer--this is perhaps one of the only few TLs consciously written to be hated by a large portion of its potential audience, that indeed revels in the thought that people will be offended.

That it pops up in these discussions every now and then and sees a brief flare-up of people commenting on the extent of its badness is just the nature of Internet discussion. As is the inevitable people springing up to protest the "constant" discussion. Hell, I'm expecting the next round of Rumsfeldia-bashing to start up in due course.
 
Maybe it's the case that a well-crafted tale which is basically a strong piece of AH that has such an ending is worse than something that is obviously puerile from beginning to end (such as Harry Harrison's Stars and Stripes trilogy).
In the same vein, what is frustrating about many Turtledove books is that he is capable of writing so much better. He has written some very high-quality work, both novels and short stories. Unfortunately, he has developed a tendency to devolve into long-winded, repetitive, banal series where a premise which might be entertaining for a book or two (or maybe a short story or two) can't carry the series as long as it goes, and the writing is just padded out to make for a long series.

There's not much more to be said if someone who simply can't write well, doesn't. That's not their forte, and that's fine. It's much more annoying when someone could write much more interesting works, but for whatever reason has opted not to.
 
Right up until the closing line, which always gives me one hell of a shock each time I come across it.

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That's not the closing line, though. Towards the end of the book but not at the end,

Padway makes a letter to Justinian explaining factors that led to the Byzantine Empire's decline, namely the last Byzantine-Sassanid War, and the rise of Islam. It read to me less like Padway wanted some sort of benevolent Christianity to destroy, and more that Padway would rather deal with the Byzantines than an expansionist empire, while writing it in suitably diplomatic language. I admit I may have read it wrong.
 
In the same vein, what is frustrating about many Turtledove books is that he is capable of writing so much better. He has written some very high-quality work, both novels and short stories. Unfortunately, he has developed a tendency to devolve into long-winded, repetitive, banal series where a premise which might be entertaining for a book or two (or maybe a short story or two) can't carry the series as long as it goes, and the writing is just padded out to make for a long series.

I did recently read his Shtetl Days short story, about actors in a victorious Reich who've been paid to run "The Jew Village" to show Germans and tourists how weird those disturbing Jews were & how right Hitler was to kill them, with
the Reich unaware this is causing the actors to go 'native' as they've been given something to compare the Reich to in terms of morals, and find it wanting
. It's a concept I don't think has ever been done anywhere before. It's quite clever (and something only a Jewish writer could get away with).

And because it's short, it's to the point and has none of the flaws people recount about his long work, nor some I noticed in Ruled Britannia. (Notably there's no sex scenes. Hooray!)
 
This isn't an ideal place for this as there are a lot of things I like about it but given the discussion of non-nuclear WW3s has returned I might as well. It's times these like these I kinda wish we had a "*Larry David standing between a protest and counter-protest* Alternate History story" thread.

World War III, originally Der Dritte Weltkrieg, gets a lot right both in its clever mix of archival footage with filmed scenes to create a AH world that feels more lived-in than many other mockumentaries. The plot is more the issue but even there are good points to it. The full thing is on youtube and I'll link to it before going into spoiler territory.






An earlier, and successful, hardliner coup against Gorbachev is certainly an interesting PoD and the fact it's written from the standpoint of the late nineties also gives it a curious dimension. The story is largely told by a narrator with talking heads, both from NATO, Warsaw Pact, as well as ordinary German civilians* adding their two cents. Those on the west or of pro-western viewpoints talk of their dismay at the coup and the subsequent events, the civilians talk of crushed dreams and impotent rage, whilst the Soviet hardliners defend themselves and theorise what would have happened if they hadn't acted.

It's quite clever, as is the slow stumble of both sides into conventional, and ultimately nuclear, conflict. There's obviously a western-slant to it all but it's never too egregious. America (or Bundeswehr) Fuck Yeah does not make an appearance.

Until the conventional war, which is where the whole mockumentary really falls down. It comes in the form of the really tedious see-saw type battle that seems to manifest itself a lot in AH and it does feel contrived. The reason I suspect that is that the production talks about how it made great use of plans by both sides and war games and you feel there are moments where this is the case; talk of both sides expending much of their ammunition in the first days, large parts of both airforces being taken out on the ground, social disintegration in West Germany leading to clogged roads, etc. It all seems to flow with the sober tone of the rest of the mockumentary but it feels like at some point there needs to be a clear NATO victory which is where things deviate from this tone. When things are at their darkest, NATO merely gains full air supremacy over the course of a day, Soviet equipment suffers major breakdowns and their command structure is beheaded, Warsaw Pact troops desert and the satellite regimes collapse, NATO suddenly has no issues with ammunition, the roads unclog themselves, and within two weeks NATO are at the Polish border having to reassure the Soviets that they don't intend on Barbarossa, which the Soviets disbelieve. Cue Tom Lehrer.

I think the reason why I find it so annoying is because the build-up is pretty good. If the whole thing was just campily bad it wouldn't have stuck out as much but it really did feel like all the Romero-esque talk of "We killed ourselves due to miscommunication, thankfully this didn't happen" at the end is overcome by "but if it did, we would give kicked their asses."


* This was originally a ZDF production although the English version was a collaboration with an American studio, apparently there isn't much difference between the German and English versions
 
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