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Different sides of different rings: Wrestling PODs and such

Qaz_plm

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Inspired by the Football PODs thread and the fantastic Remembering The Invasion by @RyanF. Like all sports pro wrestling has a almost unlimited amount of What-could-have-beens just some off the top of my head

- What if Vince McMahon wasn’t able to get Hulk Hogan back from AWA in 1983 ?
- What if Jim Ross became WCW president in 1993 ?
- What if Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks accepted the offer to go to the WWE after All In ?
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Having a quick go at (1) and (2).

1. What if Vince McMahon wasn’t able to get Hulk Hogan back from AWA in 1983?

This is an interesting one, McMahon was set on national expansion so it's likely he'd try to find another figurehead. Sgt. Slaughter was the next obvious face, other options are Paul Orndorff, The Junkyard Dog, or Roddy Piper. Some people mention Kerry von Erich although it seems unlikely that he would leave World Class in 1983-4, he was also completely unstable and would never have survived on the WWF touring schedule. None of them are as big a star as Hogan. OTL, McMahon almost went bankrupt by expanding too quickly and betting everything on Wrestlemania. It's possible that without Hogan, he fails. When he bought the WWF there was a clause that if he failed to make scheduled repayments the company would revert to the ownership of Vince Sr. and Gorilla Monsoon. Or he could just expand slowly, which will give the territorial system some breathing space.

2. What if Jim Ross became WCW president in 1993?

JR was probably unlikely to get the job, as he was Watts' protege and both were very unpopular by the time that Watts stood down. But assuming he does get it, I guess the product would be similar to Mid South i.e. episodic wrestling with hard hitting athletes. His favourite wrestler was 'Dr. Death' Steve Williams. Steve Austin would probably stay in WCW and have a world title run. Hulk Hogan would probably still come in as Turner executives wanted him there, but he probably has a briefer stint and gets frustrated with JR, before going back to movies or maybe New Japan (as he had originally planned in 1992). WCW would still get primetime on TNT as this was also an edict from Turner.
 
-Scott Steiner in WWF: after the “Purple Warrior” shoot promo that led to him being suspended,Ric Flair tried to kick Scott Steiner out of WCW because he’s Ric Flair and what not. Assume he did manage to do this and it’s not implausible that Bib Poppa Pomp,out of resentment,joins with WWF earlier and thus doesn’t get buried like a lot of WCW guys because he came in before the company went bust.

-Mordecai Doesn’t Get Into a Bar Fight: like the title says,the main reason why Mordecai’s push was stopped and he was sent to OVW was due to him getting into a bar fight and going to court. No bar fight,Mordecai gets to feud with Undertaker and Eddie Guerrero.

-Paul Levesque (1969-2002): according to Chris Jericho,Trips nearly died by accident due to RVD botching a spot and hitting him in the throat during the first Elimination Chamber at Survivor Series 2002,which would have been massively tragic and,well,the aftershocks are too big to properly talk about in a single post.
 
1. What if Flair didn't switch seats with Johnny Valentine in the 1975 plane crash?
2. What if Bill Watts and Mid-South secured the slot on TBS and not Crockett?
3. What if Magnum T.A. was never injured?
4. What if Gino Hernandez survived?
5. What if Mid-South survived and was never sold to Crockett in 1987?
6. What if The Great Muta had stayed in the United States?
7. What if Jumbo Tsuruta defeated Misawa in 1990 as planned?
8. What if Vince went to jail in 1994 after the steroid trial, and Jerry Jarrett took over management of the WWF?
9. What if Hogan refused to be the third man, and Sting took his place?
10. What if Flair jumped to the WWF in 1998?
11. What if Goldberg had not injured Bret?
12. What if Misawa had stayed in All Japan after Baba's death and NOAH was never formed?
13. What if Fusient purchased WCW and they secured a TV deal on F/X?
14. What if ECW secured funding and survived?
15. What if Dixie Carter didn't bring back Vince Russo to TNA in 2006?
16. What if Chris Jericho or Goldberg was the mystery signing for TNA in 2006, and not Kurt Angle?
17. What if Paul Heyman had joined TNA as booker in 2010?
18. What if the Elite had never organised All In?
19. What if Shahid Khan had refused Tony Khan's request to start a wrestling promotion?
20. What if Vince McMahon's NDAs and sexual harassment had been clearly exposed earlier?
 
A big recent one is if someone else becomes the Dark Order's Exalted One. This is the biggest issue if it's Marty Scurll as the Young Bucks originally thought, first because of (AFAIK) visa and travel issues if he's Exalting when covid causes an end to transport and second because he was accused in Speaking Out. That got him booted from ROH, it will probably cost him his role in AEW and then... well, then Dark Order's done as a concept, you can't easily come back from that.

Matt Hardy and Dr Luther are two other choices, and I can see Matt Hardy as a Dark Order leader really easily - it'll probably be well good. But anyone other than Brodie Lee means you don't have Dark Order altering as a result of how well Brodie Lee works as a terrifying-but-funny paper-throwing boss on Being The Elite ("BIIIITCH") and then, well, them becoming heroes because Brodie dies. The Dark Order we know today is largely down to the fans being on their side due to BTE and Brodie Lee's passing. If it's Matt Hardy, I can see the Order turning on him like the HFO did and the faction probably gradually sheds members for other gimmicks, or doesn't exist. I think they're the only AEW faction that's mostly stayed the same since mid-2020, the main changes being people let go until Anna Jay defected.
 
What if Hart just accepted a clean loss, butterflying away the Montreal Screwjob?

Per Hart's account of events leading up to Survivor Series he was willing to lose to Michaels if McMahon requested it up to mid-October, even after their backstage fight. Michaels told him he would not do the same and led to Hart's refusal. Michaels refutes this, of course, but other sources do backup the claim that Michaels would refuse to lose.

I do think that there comes a point during 1997 where Michaels becomes totally burned out and so pathetic that he's pitiable. When you're burned out and head strong you're liable to say stupid things. Saying anything else, maybe he does go over clean. On the other hand, Michaels did get a clump of his hair ripped out, maybe that was his point of no return.

There are other options to either Hart or Michaels agreeing to lose clean but still not going the OTL screwjob route. Hart had indicated separately that he would be willing to lose to Michaels, but not in Canada; or, that he would be willing to lose to anyone else, anywhere. I think Austin was specifically mentioned, but he was still coming off his neck injury at SummerSlam* and McMahon already had a mind to crown Austin at WrestleMania. The Undertaker seems a possibility, wins the title back from Hart at Survivor Series and then drops it to Michaels at the December PPV or at the Royal Rumble.

There's also the option that Hart thought was going to go down, D-Generation X and The Hart Foundation both do run-ins and the match is thrown out with Hart vacating the title the next night at Raw in Ottawa. This was allegedly the plan from multiple sources until Triple H went all Iago on a call between McMahon, Michaels and others (I think Gerry Brisco and Pat Patterson specifically). Part of me does wonder though did McMahon really have any intention of letting someone voluntarily vacate his world title before going south.

Whatever the route, even if there's no Montreal Screwjob and Hart bids goodbye to the WWF fans in Ottawa I can really see Bischoff et al. parading out on Nitro with Canadian flags. This might still burn bridges between Hart and McMahon. A more immediate change might come at Starrcade, since it was trying to recreate Montreal that gave Hogan the opportunity to make it look like he beat Sting clean and piss on 18 months worth of build. Hogan would always have the means and motive to do this, but without doing the false finish he might not get his opening.

I'm actually planning on doing No Montreal Screwjob as a POD in a similar piece to my better invasion TLIAW from last year, so I think about this a lot.

*Underrated as a POD in and of itself. Austin had to change his whole in-ring style as a result, it sort of wrecked his relationship with Owen Hart and as a result stymied the younger Hart brother's career (with all the consequences that might have had), Austin was out from November 1999 to September 2000 in order to get some long overdue surgery (The Rock filling in as top babyface and Triple H becoming the biggest heel in the industry in his absence), and Austin retired from in-ring in 2003 at the age of 38 (aside from a brief return this year). It's not exactly out of the realms of possibility for Austin to avoid this injury and still be wrestling full time well into the 2010s.

1. What if Vince McMahon wasn’t able to get Hulk Hogan back from AWA in 1983?

This is an interesting one, McMahon was set on national expansion so it's likely he'd try to find another figurehead. Sgt. Slaughter was the next obvious face, other options are Paul Orndorff, The Junkyard Dog, or Roddy Piper. Some people mention Kerry von Erich although it seems unlikely that he would leave World Class in 1983-4, he was also completely unstable and would never have survived on the WWF touring schedule. None of them are as big a star as Hogan. OTL, McMahon almost went bankrupt by expanding too quickly and betting everything on Wrestlemania. It's possible that without Hogan, he fails. When he bought the WWF there was a clause that if he failed to make scheduled repayments the company would revert to the ownership of Vince Sr. and Gorilla Monsoon. Or he could just expand slowly, which will give the territorial system some breathing space.

Apparently the two backup options McMahon was considering were Kerry von Erich, as mentioned, and Jimmy Snuka. The latter presents plenty of issues that were already present. As for von Erich, he could get to the top but it'd be difficult to keep him there for one reason or another (pulling him away from home, his own personal demons, and pater Fritz no doubt trying to weasel his way into that sweet New York money). So, the Texas Tornado might get Vince where he needed for the first WrestleMania... but might not get him to where he wanted for WrestleMania III. Having to replace your star attraction early on might actually be a blessing in disguise for the Fed, since they might not have the same trouble they did trying to crown a replacement to Hogan OTL. A little variation in the top of the card and less obsession about a dominant Top Guy be it Hogan, Austin, Cena or Reigns might actually be beneficial.

On the other side of this, AWA still have Hulk Hogan. He's still oozing with charisma and has a unique, head-turning look. The AWA also presumably still has Gene Okerlund, Bobby Heenan, Jesse Ventura and Wendi Richter. Keep in mind too that the catalyst for the Rock 'n' Wrestling wasn't Hogan but a feud between Cyndi Lauper and Lou Albano that led to an MTV special where each of them managed a wrestler (Fabulous Moolah for Albano, and Wendi Richter for Lauper).

If Von Erich is The Guy and eventually goes back to WCCW within a couple years then the Dallas the promotion now has wrestling's hottest star. Well, maybe tied for hottest with Hogan. Imagine Fritz Von Erich and Jerry Jarrett still going in on a joint promotion headlined originally by Kerry coming off his WWF run and Jerry Lawler. Could actually make a fourth national promotional viable.

Yes, fourth. The other player not talked about is whoever manages to latch onto the Ted Turner empire. Be it Mid-South or Jim Crockett. Why not both? OTL they were done for and had to be sold to the Turner Empire after McMahon fucked them over with Starrcade 1987 by running Survivor Series on the same day and telling any PPV providers who ran the JCP event that they'd not get the WWF one nor would they get next year's WrestleMania. However, as mentioned, maybe WrestleMania III isn't quite as big as it was OTL without Hogan/Andre. Maybe Vince lacks the clout for this threat to have as big an impact, or maybe he lacks the cojones to even make the threat in the first place.

Would be great if the four national promotions last into the cable TV boom of the 1990s! The nights we wouldn't have wrestling we'd have Star Trek.

11. What if Goldberg had not injured Bret?

This happened? Never seen Bret bring it up before.

The prospect of Bret Hart wrestling beyond 2000 is an enticing one. He's not going to WWF/E right away given his history, so can expect him on the Jeff Jarrett, Lex Luger, Scott Steiner, Sting circuit doing things like WWA. When a competitor is formed (an alternate TNA, continuing WWA, or whatever) he seems the best choice to be Top Guy there. Even "the best" is underselling it since he'd be a bloody great choice. Maybe them Jarrett Boys realise this from the off and bring him in before it even starts. Maybe having to appease Bret causes some things to change like not adopting Vince Russo's proposal name of TNA as a play on T&A.

They're still going to have their problems money wise, but imagine a *TNA with Bret Hart on top, maybe his status brings in other potential headliners like Sting, Savage, Shamrock whilst still having JJ. You'd presumably still have the X Division as well as tags and women's divisions actually given time and care. They could be in a lot better a place by 2006, when...

16. What if Chris Jericho or Goldberg was the mystery signing for TNA in 2006, and not Kurt Angle?

I doubt they'd be able to afford Goldberg for long. Jericho in some ways might be a better choice than Angle. Angle unfortunately only went to TNA after WWE told him it was either enter rehab or they'd fire him. Jericho had been gone from WWE for a year at that point, if his entry into TNA is anything like his return to WWE in 2007 with the same viral marketing techniques it could easily become one of the most interesting things in wrestling before he even shows up.

Since Christian is already there you've got an instant feud opportunity and neither of those two Canadians every really had issues with putting younger guys over.

Of course, WWE could always lure people back with money. Jericho left WWE on far better terms in 2005 than he did in 2018.
 
A rather dark one is when Tommy Dreamer was "depressed as depressed can be" he seriously thought about killing Paul Heyman and then himself at Wrestlemania X7. He stopped thinking about this when he found out he'd be brought into the WWE in a few months. Obliviously a murder suicide on live PPV during the height of wrestling popularity would have a few impacts on the business.
 
Of course, there's "what if the North Korean PPV led to a major international incident?" Because with North Korea, you never know...

Dark Side of the Ring did an episode on this, some of the stories are outright insane.

Sleazy Uncle Eric was told he was only the seventh American to ever visit the country without being shot or imprisoned.

Scott Norton and a few of the boys asked their handlers if they could play a few frames of pool. It took two hours to get the all clear from their handlers higher ups! During the game the armed guards got pissed off and smashed all the balls, Norton had to be taken away by the other wrestlers there before he did something he'd regret.

Norton later said on a call to his wife from his hotel room that he hated North Korea. The line went dead, and later several military officials showed up at his room telling him he couldn't say such things because North Korea was superior to the US in every way.

2 Cold Scorpio got so pissed off with Road Warrior Hawk (over alleged racist comments) that he fashioned a shiv out of steel chopsticks from the hotel room intending to kill him. Yeah. He was talked out of it by Wild Pegasus, before and since known as Chris Benoit. Double yeah.

Still, Sleazy Uncle Eric was happy with the whole thing because they got a bigger crowd than WrestleMania. He didn't care they were there at gunpoint.
 
Oh, WOS Wrestling working out - they had talent and interest, it's doable that the flaws are ironed put enough. Then there's family friendly British wrestling on terrestrial telly, it's mainstream, there's extra interest in indie events, NXT has to offer nice terms for longer, Brits can do well without emigrating, and WOS was an Equity show, ongoing unionisation is a big deal on its own.

Also, as in @RyanF 's invasion TLIAW, #SpeakingOut will be a big impact, worse than ITL. Britwres will have dirty laundry aired in front of mainstream people and press. Will Ospreay managed to avoid a claim he blackballed an assault victim by basically laying low and sticking to Japan for months, can't do that if you're one of ITV's draws.
 
Have had Wrestling Bios's "Reliving the War" series playing in the background whilst working at home today, working my way through the final months of 1997. Here's a few I don't think have been brought up yet I've thought on today:

What if Bret Hart goes to WCW in 1996? - Hart was missing for most of 1996 following his WrestleMania XII loss to Shawn Michaels. His contract was up with the WWF and he was fielding offers from both major companies. WCW offered him a 3 year contract worth $9M. WWF and McMahon won out with the unprecedented offer of a 20 year contract that seemed too good to be true (SPOILER: it was). Say Hart or someone close to him realises this and the deal falls through, Bret Hart will be going to WCW Oct/Nov 1996. Seems like he'd be a perfect fit for the nWo, another big star from up north. Stable as of 1 November 1996 consisting of Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Hollywood Hogan, Ted DiBiase, The Giant (wait, he doesn't fit), Syxx, Vincent (I mean, yeah, but) and Miss Elizabeth. The Nasty Boys were also in the faction for a cup of coffee. Already can really see the concept watering down, but not to the extent it would be a year later. Always felt Paul Wight joining was the first wobble, apparently was meant to be Davey Boy Smith who was also shopping around over the summer and last minute re-signed with the WWF and left Eric Bischoff scrambling to fill a spot in the nWo. Have to presume Randy Savage and Hogan were on one of their off-again periods in their long relationship. Maybe with Smith already 4 Life and knowing Hart is coming in the nWo doesn't quite start getting watered down before 1997 has begun. Anyway, Bret Hart has gone to Atlanta without the cloud of Montreal hanging over him. Can't help but feel, regardless of whether Bulldog has preceded him or not, that this can only be a good thing for WCW. Hart is a star who would have no problem working with the guys Nash, Hall and Hogan had dismissed as "vanilla midgets" - a few of them are graduates of his father's dungeon after all. I don't think he ever had heat with Nash and Hall either, the same way he did with Michaels and Triple H. Maybe too Hart can act as a mollifying influence on them - or Hall at least. Still leaves a big orange turd at the top though, and one that has Bischoff's ear. However, without Montreal (and 1997 in general) Hart and McMahon haven't burned their bridges anywhere near as bad as they would OTL. If by the end of 1999 WCW is still going down the shitter Hart's contract is once again up (coincidentally would be around the same time OTL Bischoff was relived of power and Vince Russo was brought on board) and unless Vince wants to pass on getting one of his top acts back from the competition. He might take a lot of the "vanilla midgets" with him too. What of the WWF from 1996-99? Well, Steve Austin is getting over. No change in October 1996 is changing that. Who is he feuding with from 1996 to 1997 if not Hart? Pillman is an option, and I'd love to see it. It does depend on avoiding the "Pillman's Got a Gun" angle, which I can't see McMahon doing. That did exactly what McMahon wanted it to do with any publicity being good publicity. Another option (perhaps also involving Pillman) would be Jim Cornette. No, hear me out! Manly, blue collar Steve Austin against effete, trust fund Jim Cornette. Keep Camp Cornette going and have Corny throw Owen Hart, British Bulldog (if he's still around), and maybe Pillman at Austin leading up to Austin vs. Vader at WrestleMania 13. They're not going to put on a match anywhere near as good as Austin vs. Hart, but they'll do a good show. Have one of those stipulations where Austin gets 5 minutes in the ring with Cornette if he can beat Vader. If Austin isn't the biggest babyface in the company after pantsing Cornette on a live PPV then no one can get over!

What if WCW doesn't shit the bed with Starrcade 1997? - We all know what happened, we all know why it happened, and we all know who caused it to happen. What if instead of the shit attempt at recreating Montreal Screwjob a mere six weeks after it happened instead Sting goes over Hollywood Hogan clean in the main event and a match the had been building to for over a year. No Montreal removes the means for Hogan to scuttle the match, actually having Sting wrestle from late 1996 to December 1997 removes the opportunity to blame it on Sting being out of shape. On that, actually think they made a mistake throughout 1997 in playing Sting's allegiances for so long. On that, can you believe Sting never in storyline got his revenge over nWo Sting? Or on the WCW talent for ever doubting him? Or over Randy Savage for betraying him in early 1997? Or had to go through Kevin Nash and Scott Hall before getting to Hogan? Should have gone through them all on his way to Hogan! Doesn't even have to wrestle on TV just give him a match at the PPVs. That's an aside issue. We can never remove the motive, Hogan's ego. That's not all that was wrong with WCW's biggest PPV, of course. That Vincent/Virgil, the former Big Boss Man, Mongo McMichael, Larry Zbyszko (in 1997), Eric Bischoff were all booked in matches, as well as the match with the most time going to Buff Bagwell vs. Lex Luger is a travesty! The likes of Harlem Heat and Rey Mysterio were watching from the crowd, whilst Scott Hall only managed Bischoff and Bret Hart was acting as a fucking referee! Yes, the biggest thing of wrestler now joining your company after leaving his former employer under a cloud where most fans are on his side and you make him a referee! 3 of the 7 matches on the card should be scrapped and replaced. They had to scrap one anyway when Kevin Nash thought he had suffered a heart attack and no showed the event, whilst Konnan also had to drop out for a personal tragedy and was replaced with Randy Savage. Not just the egos at the top of the card, but the ones all throughout that kept much of the hottest talent off the card (specifically to mention Harlem Heat, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, Scott Hall, Randy Savage and Bret Hart). To do that though you really have to go back to the build, which as we know was from late 1996 for the main event. If only there had been something of a counterpoint to the Hogan-Bischoff/Nash-Hall orbits in the locker room from 1996... hmm, does anyone else hear that guitar screech?
 
Aw shit here comes Screwed ! It would be interesting to see if they go through making it or a similar thing if he's the main attraction of the TNA proxy or they take the high road.

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Interesting one here from the horse's mouth.

Per Triple H he and The Rock were meant to go one-on-one in an Iron Man match at WrestleMania 2000 but this was pushed back to Judgment Day (not Backlash like Trips claims) because Austin wasn't ready to return yet (Austin would figure in Backlash but not the eventual Iron Man match at Judgment Day). Match was changed to the four-way McMahon-in-every-corner bollocks over the objections of both men.

This might go someway to explaining why so much of WrestleMania 2000 felt cobbled together with no thought to matches, every actual wrestling match being a multi-man, and performers who otherwise would have no business on a WrestleMania card getting a match.
 
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