ASB: Alexander the Great lives 1,000 years, ascends to Olympus

[Mazarin]

So here's an ASB idea(mods feel free to move it if it isn't the right subforum). Alexander the Great does not die in Babylon, he wakes up just on the verge of death re invigorated. He feels fresh, and unwearied, there is no pain, and all his wounds( as well as alcohol poisoning is cured).

He will not grow a day older, and he will be immune to any injury-his skin unable to be cut, and his bones never being bruished. A sword swing to his neck will have no effect, a hammer blow to his cranium he will turn aside as if it were a breeze. In short he cannot die, and he will never be sick again. His mind will also never deteriorate.

He now has until 677 AD to live. At which point-wherever he is, and whatever he is doing-he floats off the ground, carried by a chariot with winged horses-a loud voice crying out "come up here my son".

What can he do with another thousand years of life? And what will his legacy be when he is seen departing the world of men with the (implied but not outright stated voice of Zeus) carrying him away?

Can he with this immortality conquer the world, in a thousand year time span,or will he spend centuries conquering and re conquering, being exiled and returning to reconquer again-until his time is up?

Thoughts and ideas?

 

[BBadolato]

So here's an ASB idea(mods feel free to move it if it isn't the right subforum). Alexander the Great does not die in Babylon, he wakes up just on the verge of death re invigorated. He feels fresh, and unwearied, there is no pain, and all his wounds( as well as alcohol poisoning is cured).

He will not grow a day older, and he will be immune to any injury-his skin unable to be cut, and his bones never being bruished. A sword swing to his neck will have no effect, a hammer blow to his cranium he will turn aside as if it were a breeze. In short he cannot die, and he will never be sick again. His mind will also never deteriorate.

He now has until 677 AD to live. At which point-wherever he is, and whatever he is doing-he floats off the ground, carried by a chariot with winged horses-a loud voice crying out "come up here my son".

What can he do with another thousand years of life? And what will his legacy be when he is seen departing the world of men with the (implied but not outright stated voice of Zeus) carrying him away?

Can he with this immortality conquer the world, in a thousand year time span,or will he spend centuries conquering and re conquering, being exiled and returning to reconquer again-until his time is up?

Thoughts and ideas?

I don't think he can, assuming he manages to remain sane through living through 1000 years, there's an issue of logistics, manpower, and the fact yes he cannot be killed he can be imprisoned unless he has super strength?

 

[Mazarin]

I don't think he can, assuming he manages to remain sane through living through 1000 years, there's an issue of logistics, manpower, and the fact yes he cannot be killed he can be imprisoned unless he has super strength?

He's never going to get weaker-so he will be the absolute peak of human physical ability. Not to mention he's going to be a god king-who will dare to overthrow the Son of Zeus-Amon?

 

[Makemakean]

He's never going to get weaker-so he will be the absolute peak of human physical ability. Not to mention he's going to be a god king-who will dare to overthrow the Son of Zeus-Amon?

Those who regard him and his supernatural abilities as proof that he is a demon, a wizard in league with dark forces, and someone who consequently must be destroyed, perhaps?

I sort of feel that if you want to make a proper story out of this, you need to have someone(s) who opposes Alexander, acts as a credible threat against him, and has well-grounded reasons for thinking that he is someone who must be destroyed.

 

[ChrisNuttall]

The historical Alexander, at the time of his death, was starting to have delusions of grandeur – he wanted the Macedonians to prostrate themselves before him (as the Persians did), he perhaps thought he was fathered by a god, etc, etc. His army had rather mixed feelings about this and, more practically, with the fact they’d been campaigning for years, won the war against Persia, and perhaps it was time to sit back and enjoy the fruits of their victory. Worse, the new empire wasn’t held together very well; there was no adult heir and no sense of any permanence, which is partly why the Successors carved it up in the process.

Assuming Alexander rises as you say, the tendency to view him as a god will be pretty strong. He can play Balder and stand in the middle of his enemies, daring them to rain weapons on him; he can stride towards the enemy camp, shielding his men with his own body. In the short term, he’d have one hell of an edge. The Macedonians would have little trouble teaching the Greeks a lesson, assuming they rebelled as they did in OTL, and spreading their influence through the Mediterranean. We might end up with a Rome/Carthage alliance against Alexander, although Rome wasn’t anything like so powerful at the time and probably quite powerfully affected by Alexander’s apparent divinity. Or … in OTL, the Macedonian outposts in India were overwhelmed by Chandragupta Maurya, who was very much the Indian version of Alexander. Here, with the Macedonians more united under a single monarch, and Persia still under their control, the Indians will have a much harder time of it. Chandragupta may be great, but he’s not going to look divine. In fact, even if Alexander lives an extra ten years without any divine meddling, the foundations of his empire might be a great deal more solid.

(Actually, that might lead to a story. Alexander fights Chandragupta, giving Rome and Cartage time to build up.)

In the long term, his increasing drift towards despotism would be a serious problem. Alexander was great at taking land, terrible at holding it. He did take steps towards solidifying his territory, but few of them lasted long and pretty much all provoked resentment. We might see the Alexandrian Empire as a ramshackle structure even with an immortal emperor, particularly as he thinks he’ll be around forever and therefore doesn’t have to worry about laying the groundwork for his son. It would be an interesting balancing act – on one hand, the kingdom is ruled by a genuine superhuman (although ‘some talk of Alexander’ might apply, with no one who didn’t see his abilities believing in them) who seems to have divine blessing; on the other, said king is turning into a despot and is demanding things no self-respecting Macedonian would tolerate. And yes, imprisoning him is a viable solution.

Enemies … it’s a little too early for many of the roman greats. The main enemy might be his own sons, who will resent forever growing to manhood and dying without ever inheriting something. Or religious types who see him as a demon, or something from a dark god. Or his own civil service, who see him as a bar to effective authority – can you imagine Sir Humphrey in this situation? <LOL> He might wind up getting locked away, or buried in a pit …

It might make a cool story.

 

[Mazarin]

He's going to outlast anyone who has doubts I think, and he's going to sire loads of children-not to mention his officers would not dare divorce their Persian wives with him alive. Remember Alexander was glorified, and people claimed descent from him or sought to imitate him for thousands of years-and this is without him being verifiably a demigod.

I think people are ignoring the actual effects of being functionally immortal would be in that age-religions have started for less. He's going to be worshipped. As in he will be seen as the god king, the ruler of Europe, Egypt and Asia-with a direct right to rule given by the gods. A right few will question once his immediate contemporaries pass away-not to mention Alexander was claiming to be the son of Zeus in his lifetime.

His generals scoffed at this-but if they see him withstand twenty arrows to the neck and chest shirtless, or his head deflect a blow that would kill any man without a scratch-doubt is going to eat them up, that well...Philip died after all like any man, maybe Zeus did what Zeus is known to do.

Once that knowledge percolates down the chain-its going to be nearly impossible, as well as almost entirely inconceivable for anyone to plot against Alexander-trying to overpower him or assassinate him will be done by those who don't believe the stories-and its going to be almost impossible for anyone to get to a man surrounded by trained killers, and himself a trained(and immortal) warrior.

I think you'll see Alexander complete his planned conquests-of Arabia and Carthage, circumnavigate Africa, and bring Sicily and Magna Grecia to heel-defeating the Romans and other Italic peoples should go off pretty easily.

Then he'll likely return to India and deal with Maurya-even as an immortal, I expect it would be hard fighting, though Alexander would win.

He might spend a century or two trying to consolidate an empire stretching from the pillars of Herakles to northwestern India-this is going to tax ancient logistics beyond their limits. So while he'll party and sire hundreds of children, he's going to spend centuries engaged in crisis management, and punitive campaigns against rebelling satraps-opportunistic celts, Indians, Scythians, and the like.

After that he'll likely continue pushing into India-if the Mauryans can be destroyed, and Alexander's divine reputation spreads-I expect he would prevail in India, how much is hard to say, but enough within the time allotted.

He'll likely make a go at China within his lifetime and conduct campaigns on his European periphery-Iberia, Southern gaul, Italy, and the balkans-likely as far north as the Danube, as well as Nubia down to Ethiopia. Can he conquer the Eurasian landmass? Depends on how large and good his army is, and how fanatical they'll be in willing to die for their god king. He might reach the Pacific. He will at least make a go at taking China-becoming lord of the world and of men.

By the time of his ascension-he will have countless descendants, every one of his courtiers will be a blood relative, his descendants will be spread to all corners of the world, and his legend will be even greater.

Conquering Eurasia aside-having this amount of time allows him to conduct his cultural syncretism-building roads, mixing populations, inviting philosophers from all corners-Babylon will become the richest city in the world. Though I expect he will have multiple capitals-with courts that travel with him, depending on the circumstance. Once he leaves the world (and if he goes up with a divine voice heard by all witnesses-no one period is going to doubt he really was a demigod), his empire will likely fracture.


By then it will encompass most of, if not all of Eurasia, potentially large parts of Africa and maybe even further afield. Probably most cities and places in the world will be named Alexandria-might as well rename the earth as Alexandrum.

By 677 AD(or whatever date system is used)-I expect the world to be heavily Macedonian, with countless Alexandrias, and his veterans siring and founding countries in their own right-The world will be much more connected.

 

[napoleon IV]

Those who regard him and his supernatural abilities as proof that he is a demon, a wizard in league with dark forces, and someone who consequently must be destroyed, perhaps?

I sort of feel that if you want to make a proper story out of this, you need to have someone(s) who opposes Alexander, acts as a credible threat against him, and has well-grounded reasons for thinking that he is someone who must be destroyed.

Yeah a story where Alexander just crushes all before him and rules as an invincible god is pretty boring. The only way to make that interesting is if it's set at the very end of his reign and suddenly he gets taken up like the Prophet Elijah and everyone has to figure out what the hell they're gonna do now.

 

[Makemakean]

Snip.

Look, mate, I don’t think you quite understand my objections. You need to give your hero some weaknesses, or otherwise the story is going to be boring. That’s really the issue here.

Just having a succession of battles Alexander keeps winning because he cannot die, a succession of dates at which various kingdoms and principalities become integrated into the Macedonian empire, a religion around him that nobody doubts… That’s not a good story, because it lacks stakes.

 

[Mazarin]

Look, mate, I don’t think you quite understand my objections. You need to give your hero some weaknesses, or otherwise the story is going to be boring. That’s really the issue here.

Just having a succession of battles Alexander keeps winning because he cannot die, a succession of dates at which various kingdoms and principalities become integrated into the Macedonian empire, a religion around him that nobody doubts… That’s not a good story, because it lacks stakes.

The story as such begins more after he leaves the world.

But I'll try to answer your objections.

Battles: Alexander was one of the finest military minds in history, and arguably the best in the world at the time he lived. Make him immortal-and that doesn't change, beyond being more reckless or willing to enter the heat himself (which he already did btw).
Who exactly do you think beyond Indian empires and China are going to be anything more than a hindrance or frustration?

Religion: Dude-this is a premodern time, people are superstitious, and take the signs of the gods for things we'd see as meaningless or mundane. I'm giving him actual superpowers-confirmed and visible to anyone. You don't think this is going to lead to people worshipping him, towards those who have doubts doubting their doubts? I'm taking human culture and beliefs as they actually were and applying the ASB premise to them-presuming people will be cynical enough or willing to risk divine wrath to try and imprison him or throw him down a well-is imparting a modern set of ideas and assumptions onto 4th century BC macedonians. And that just doesn't gel with me.

As for a story-you can do a lot of stories with a god king Alexander-have him disappear, or literally go to the heavens a la Elijah in the bible. How do people cope with the one constant on earth-the god king leaving them? What are the effects? How do his many descendants, spread as far as Britannia and Western China cope with this loss, how do they carve up a much vaster empire between them? Are the gods rewarding their scion? Are they punishing us? The absolutely massive and bitter wars between thousands of heirs, satraps and generals-carving the Eurasian landmasse apart from ocean to ocean, the religious consequences-Alexander a god on earth, now he has left us? What do we do? How do we live?

The intellectual and social effects-what does a millennium of western Eurasia under one man look like? How does this affect the development of law, the growth of religion in what we call the Axial age? How do the population transfers affect languages-how does philosophy and science develop with a large chunk of the world united and aware of itself and beyond itself?





You can have plenty of stories where Alexander is a distant presence, an idea. A satrap in northern gaul that isn't getting any attention-is suffering raids and constant depopulation from people leaving for better pastures, struggling to get the god king's or his viziers attention. A descendant of a still living Alexander-possibly ten or 12 generations removed-trying to carve out his place in an empire where his cousins hold kingdoms of their own under their ancestor's gaze.

You are really misunderstanding the implications of the premise and what can be done with it.

Yeah a story where Alexander just crushes all before him and rules as an invincible god is pretty boring. The only way to make that interesting is if it's set at the very end of his reign and suddenly he gets taken up like the Prophet Elijah and everyone has to figure out what the hell they're gonna do now.

That's very much part of the premise-you can create an alternate world where most if not all of Eurasia is united and looks very different, an alternate world where the one constant is Alexander-the son of Zeus, the anointed ruler of the world. Well he's gone, whether it be he disappeared or literally was taken on a golden chariot into the clouds-oh well now we don't have a god king with a millennium of experience and invincibility to lead and watch over us? The affect on culture here is going to be beyond massive. The wars to be fought-the religious manias, the economic dislocation-the countless great great great great times x many grandchildren, generals and governors who finally have a chance to pursue their own ambitions-free of the god king's judgement.

 

[Makemakean]

The story as such begins more after he leaves the world.

Okay, well then, if you're going with the scenario suggested by @napoleon IV then sure, you might be able to make something interesting out of this, but it is to be noted that the story now isn't really about Alexander. Alexander is something that exists out there in the greater world-building, but he's not the hero, he's not the focal point of the story.

But I'll try to answer your objections.

Battles: Alexander was one of the finest military minds in history, and arguably the best in the world at the time he lived. Make him immortal-and that doesn't change, beyond being more reckless or willing to enter the heat himself (which he already did btw).
Who exactly do you think beyond Indian empires and China are going to be anything more than a hindrance or frustration?

Religion: Dude-this is a premodern time, people are superstitious, and take the signs of the gods for things we'd see as meaningless or mundane. I'm giving him actual superpowers-confirmed and visible to anyone. You don't think this is going to lead to people worshipping him, towards those who have doubts doubting their doubts? I'm taking human culture and beliefs as they actually were and applying the ASB premise to them-presuming people will be cynical enough or willing to risk divine wrath to try and imprison him or throw him down a well-is imparting a modern set of ideas and assumptions onto 4th century BC macedonians. And that just doesn't gel with me.

You're not actually answering my objections here. My objection is "the scenario you paint is boring." You're answering as if my objection had in fact been "the scenario you paint is implausible."

As for a story-you can do a lot of stories with a god king Alexander-have him disappear, or literally go to the heavens a la Elijah in the bible. How do people cope with the one constant on earth-the god king leaving them? What are the effects? How do his many descendants, spread as far as Britannia and Western China cope with this loss, how do they carve up a much vaster empire between them? Are the gods rewarding their scion? Are they punishing us? The absolutely massive and bitter wars between thousands of heirs, satraps and generals-carving the Eurasian landmasse apart from ocean to ocean, the religious consequences-Alexander a god on earth, now he has left us? What do we do? How do we live?

The intellectual and social effects-what does a millennium of western Eurasia under one man look like? How does this affect the development of law, the growth of religion in what we call the Axial age? How do the population transfers affect languages-how does philosophy and science develop with a large chunk of the world united and aware of itself and beyond itself?

That's the thing though, none of these stories are actually about Alexander the God-King, they are about the people living in a world that for a time was ruled by Alexander the God-King, and picking up in the aftermath of him already having passed away. Kind of like how Towing Jehovah isn't a novel about God, it's a novel about people coming to terms with the fact that the God of Christianity existed, but he actually died.

So if you're merely talking about world-building here, that the rise of Alexander and his Empire won't be the story, but merely part of the backstory, then obviously we're talking past one another.

 

[Arthur_Phuxache]

So here's an ASB idea(mods feel free to move it if it isn't the right subforum). Alexander the Great does not die in Babylon, he wakes up just on the verge of death re invigorated. He feels fresh, and unwearied, there is no pain, and all his wounds( as well as alcohol poisoning is cured).

He will not grow a day older, and he will be immune to any injury-his skin unable to be cut, and his bones never being bruished. A sword swing to his neck will have no effect, a hammer blow to his cranium he will turn aside as if it were a breeze. In short he cannot die, and he will never be sick again. His mind will also never deteriorate.

How many wives & children does he have during his thousand year, uh, realm?

What status do they have? Do they have augmented lifespans?

How depressed will he be by outliving his wives, his mistresses, concubines, sons, grandsons, and yea, unto the fortieth generation?

Is there an anointed heir?

What's stopping him being entombed alive for the majority of his reign (sealed evil in a mausoleum)?

 

[frittering]

NO solar fascism on my christian alt history forum

 

[Mazarin]

How many wives & children does he have during his thousand year, uh, realm?

What status do they have? Do they have augmented lifespans?

How depressed will he be by outliving his wives, his mistresses, concubines, sons, grandsons, and yea, unto the fortieth generation?

Is there an anointed heir?

What's stopping him being entombed alive for the majority of his reign (sealed evil in a mausoleum)?

hundreds of thousands-by the time of his passing, the amount of people who hold some of his blood will number in the tens of millions. Since he will never age-he will marry thousands if not tens of thousands of women, and sire children on many mistresses, concubines, and women besides.

They are all part of the court, and if ancestry can be confirmed-a status higher than those without. Essentially above his nobles.

No there is not.

I imagine he would get depressed, but Alexander is the type to get over depression by launching a massive expedition to some new corner of the world. Getting wildly drunk and burning down a city, then renaming it.

The fact people have seen what he can do-and in near everyone's mind, this confirms his claims of divinity-even imagining betrayal is hard in a society where the gods are a fact of life-raising a hand against the son of Zeus is a good way to get direct and merciless vengeance directed at you. The longer he lives, the less people who will even dare contemplate this, because well they believe he is in fact divine. Worship becomes normal, unquestioning obedience natural. Though no physically there is nothing stopping this.

 

[BBadolato]

Also I feel your giving Alexander too much power here despite the fact even with immortally of this kind it's not an I win button. Yes he has all of this power as one man, but he's still just one man, he can't fight armies or administer all on his own. He might not be able to die in battle, but he could just be surrounded and captured after everyone else gets killed.

What keeps him sane despite more than likely living in a world that might gradually become alien to him, to say nothing of personal loss?

 

[Mazarin]

Also I feel your giving Alexander too much power here despite the fact even with immortally of this kind it's not an I win button. Yes he has all of this power as one man, but he's still just one man, he can't fight armies or administer all on his own. He might not be able to die in battle, but he could just be surrounded and captured after everyone else gets killed.

What keeps him sane despite more than likely living in a world that might gradually become alien to him, to say nothing of personal loss?

How so? His mind remains functional. And if anything he will shape the world more than any man in history. I never said he couldn't be defeated-he retains the might of his armies after all. He's got one of the best in the world, and these men are...after a few decades going to genuinely believe they are being led by a god. While not somehow becoming bad at war. The worst effects would be the loss of family, close friends, and the like.

The power Alexander has is not dying-everything else about the man remains the same. The effects of the former though will be outsized. Being led into battle by Achilles reborn, means more victories for an army with 1000% morale boosts, satraps fear to rebel because they've heard the stories-and because Alexander's personality hasn't changed-they'll all be killed.

I think you are understating the cascade of effects this will have on the government and people around and under him. Which will only snowball and benefit Alexander more.

Being worshipped and feared means fewer plots-which means more loyal subordinates which means more time for campaigns which means more resources, men and bases for further campaigns, meaning more glory and loot, which leads to deeper loyalty which leads to further campaigns, etc...

That doesn't mean plots won't happen-rebellions either by frontier governors, frustrated generals, or attempted coups when he's 2,500 miles away on campaign. You could easily have entire centuries/decades where Alexander is forced to reconquer territories or purge his court he's spent a lifetime away from.

 

[OHC]

I think this is great potential background for a story, although I don't have enough knowledge of the period for too much AH speculation.

I will say that in a world before mass media and where most people believe in some kind of supernatural forces the "conversion effect" will be much less pronounced than if something like this happened in the past couple hundred years. Rather than seeing Alexander's immortality as a confirmation of the Greek pantheon's existence, people outside his immediate presence might either dismiss it as a fantastic tale ("those people over in the Macedonian empire think all their emperors are one immortal guy") or interpret him as a demonic or demigod figure that fits with their own local mythology. It won't necessarily shake people's understanding of reality.

This is a good opportunity to plug my favorite classical text, The Histories of Herodotus - he discusses a bunch of cultures on the edge of Greek understanding, reporting some of their supernatural beliefs skeptically and some with credulity. I imagine chroniclers in, say, China, would have a similar attitude to the stories they hear from this distant empire in the Mideast.

 

[Artaxerxes]

900 years pissed out of his mind, 100 years of conquering when he’s bored

 

[Yokai Man]

900 years pissed out of his mind, 100 years of conquering when he’s bored

Imagine being the God Emperor of Humanity spending the rest of his 1000 years of immorality doing nothing but getting shitfaced and not actually running your empire

At the age of 200 you would have run out of feeling anything relating to booze,drugs or sex,you did it all,there’s no hedonism left

“I regret everything,someone pls kill me“

 

[Arthur_Phuxache]

Imagine being the God Emperor of Humanity spending the rest of his 1000 years of immorality doing nothing but getting shitfaced and not actually running your empire

At the age of 200 you would have run out of feeling anything relating to booze,drugs or sex,you did it all,there’s no hedonism left

“I regret everything,someone pls kill me“

Immortality is a curse, after about 250 years he'll be begging to be sealed in his mausoleum, alive or dead.

There's only so much the human brain can process, remember and tolerate.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Immortality is a curse, after about 250 years he'll be begging to be sealed in his mausoleum, alive or dead.

There's only so much the human brain can process, remember and tolerate.

This is just how mortals cope with being lame, they tell themselves it’d suck.

It’s like saying rich people are miserable really