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The 2000s without 9/11

TheKennedyMachine

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Let’s say that Operation Infinite Reach is successful and Osama Bin Laden is killed on August 20th, 1998 and the 9/11 plot never comes to fruition.

What happens next? What do the 2000s and beyond look like without the September 11th terrorist attacks, Afghanistan and Iraq?
 
I mean as an American born in 1992, from what I can remember. Video Game you wise you probably would cut content for GTA III, MGS 2, CnC Generals would be worse. Honestly I'm not sure what this does for First Person Shooters, especially since you had plenty that played off patriotism or War on Terror light plots. I wonder if you get anything like V for Vendetta, as something that would hit with the current climate.

You wouldn't have this upswing in U.S patriotism that you, but what the Bush Administration would look like is unclear, it's almost hard to imagine the Bush Administration without it.

Sure about that? The guys who'd have joined ISIS IOTL would still be around. Bin Laden might have passed on his idea to someone. Islamist terrorism was around already after all.

It was around already, but it never really got into the limelight as it did after 9/11, and it also it never gained as big of recruiting ground as it did with Afghanistan and Iraq, especially because they lasted so long, you in a much more modern age.
 
You wouldn't have this upswing in U.S patriotism that you, but what the Bush Administration would look like is unclear, it's almost hard to imagine the Bush Administration without it.
I think Bush would become a Republican Jimmy Carter in a no-9/11 timeline, generally a lame duck President. Kerry becomes President in 2004.
 
As I remember them, they weren't too bad.

Massive erosion of civil liberties aside…

Probably stops the shine falling off Blair quite so soon, leading to a more comfortable 2003 election win.

Pop culture is unrecognisable.

The same countries and funding that sent out Bin Laden are still bubbling away so at some point or under different leadership I assume an increase in attacks. You do have a more stable Afghanistan as without Osama a few of the less rabid more secular warlords are about I think?
 
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Honestly it seems pretty hard to predict both in terms of "is there just Another Big Attack or does Islamist militancy against the US erode for other reasons", but I think the obvious starting point is how it affect Clinton's presidency. Would it make any sort of difference for either the last-ditch attempt at salvaging Oslo he undertook or Gore's electoral prospects in 2000? Also, does it mean that global warming-related issues get higher priority and what does attempting to combat climate change in the US look like prior to the 2010s/20s upsurge in mass transit interest?
 
salvaging Oslo he undertook or Gore's electoral prospects in 2000? Also, does it mean that global warming-related issues get higher priority and what does attempting to combat climate change in the US look like prior to the 2010s/20s upsurge in mass transit interest?
I think it's likely without a 9/11 level attack, peace might be possible in Israel/Palestine.
 
Let’s say that Operation Infinite Reach is successful and Osama Bin Laden is killed on August 20th, 1998 and the 9/11 plot never comes to fruition.

What happens next? What do the 2000s and beyond look like without the September 11th terrorist attacks, Afghanistan and Iraq?

Some immediate thoughts:

1. There is an economic argument that the Iraq War (and probably Afghanistan too) played a key role in triggering the 2008 Recession, if not as as the primary factor than as an aggravating one. The lack of the Great Recession changes everything going forward, obviously, both in good and bad ways.

2. Contemporary Chinese strategy has its roots in the 9/11 era, in that Beijing realized it had a 20 year timeframe to leverage with the U.S. focused on the Middle East region and fighting the War on Terror. Without that, China's rise may very well have been handicapped by the U.S. paying more focus to it from the 2000s onward:

First, 9/11 offered what Beijing defined as a “window of strategic opportunity” to develop its strength while the United States was acutely distracted. Many Chinese strategists saw 9/11 as the breathing space that bought China another decade to focus on its development without being identified and targeted as the priority challenge for America. During the 2000 US election campaign, presidential candidate George W. Bush had sharply criticised President Bill Clinton’s notion of a “strategic partnership” with China and proposed instead that the United States and China were “strategic competitors”. The United States would not have waited almost another two decades to define China as the most important strategic challenge and vigorously engage in what President Joe Biden now calls the “extreme competition” with China had 9/11 not taken place.​
Such an earlier turn on China could save millions of manufacturing jobs in the United States (and possibly shift some to Mexico, more on that latter), which also plays well into avoiding the Great Recession:

It’s not perfectly clear what, exactly, is the culprit behind relatively anemic growth in manufacturing output. But the signs indicate trade and globalization played a much more significant role than is commonly recognized. Of particular importance is China’s emergence as a major exporter, which US leaders encouraged. A pair of papers by economists David Autor, David Dorn, and Gordon Hanson, found that the parts of the US hit hard by Chinese import competition saw manufacturing job loss, falling wages, and the shrinking of their workforces. They also found that offsetting employment gains in other industries never materialized. Another important paper by this team of economists, along with MIT’s Daron Acemoglu and Brendan Price, estimated that competition from Chinese imports cost the US as many as 2.4 million jobs between 1999 and 2011.​
Why did China have such a big impact? In their 2016 study, economists Justin Pierce and Peter Schott argue that China’s accession to the WTO in 2001—set in motion by president Bill Clinton—sparked a sharp drop in US manufacturing employment. That’s because when China joined the WTO, it extinguished the risk that the US might retaliate against the Chinese government’s mercantilist currency and protectionist industrial policies by raising tariffs. International companies that set up shop in China therefore enjoyed the benefits of cheap labor, as well as a huge competitive edge from the Chinese government’s artificial cheapening of the yuan.​
The resulting appreciation of the dollar hurt US exporters—in particular, manufacturers. A 2017 study on the dollar’s appreciation in the early 2000s by economist Douglas Campbell found that the dollar strengthened sharply, in real terms, compared to low-wage trading partners including China. The subsequent increase in foreign imports and diminished demand for American exports resulted in a loss of around 1.5 million manufacturing jobs between 1995 and 2008.​
There are also observable signs that automation wasn’t to blame. Consider the shuttering of some 78,000 manufacturing plants between 2000 and 2014, a 22% drop. This is odd given that robots, like humans, have to work somewhere. Then there’s the fact that there simply aren’t that many robots in US factories, compared with other advanced economies.​
3. North American Integration would likely be deeper. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, there was a movement for an EU-like entity in North America, with groups like the Independent Task Force on North America and then Mexican President Vincente Fox directly calling for such. The Post 9/11 surge in American Nationalism and focus on the Middle East made this impossible, with the main policy success being the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America being signed in 2005. It is known from leaked diplomatic cables that the U.S. did look for something greater at the time, but Bush ultimately didn't go through with it for the aforementioned reasons.

Without the Post-9/11 Nationalism surge, it's likely in my mind Washington will feel more comfortable going forward with such an audacious plan, especially since the 1990s culture zeitgeist (Where things like the EU were the next big thing) fades away slower rather than abruptly ending. It's worth noting such an idea is being revived in Washington political circles in the context of the emerging Second Cold War, and an earlier confrontation with China could help give it added emphasis in TTL's 2000s. This would be a clear benefit to Mexico, as an aside, given outsourcing to China was most likely to the detriment of Mexican industries. ITTL, Mexico would probably be more clearly "the Eastern Europe" to America's "Germany":

The formation of maquiladoras, factories mostly located in areas close to the U.S. border, kicked off an era of vibrant manufacturing activity in Mexico in the 1960s. For years afterward, they churned out large volumes of components that could be exported to the U.S. duty-free. By the late 1990s, the maquilas were employing more than one million Mexico workers. Further spurring production in Mexico was the launch of regular double-stack train services that carried parts north for U.S. automakers.​
Activity slackened when U.S. companies began shifting production to China, where labor rates were cheaper and more readily available than in Mexico. But recent geopolitical shifts and other factors suggest that Mexico might be poised for another surge of manufacturing activity.​
So believes Deepak Chhugani, founder and chief executive officer of Nuvocargo, a software-centric freight forwarder and customs broker specializing in shipments between Mexico and the U.S. Thanks in part to the U.S.-China trade war, as well as the rising cost of production in China, manufacturers are beginning to turn their attention back to Mexico, he says.​
“For a lot of small importers [from China], the tariffs have become untenable and impossible to pass on,” Chhugani says. “That has made Mexico the obvious alternative.”​
Successful negotiation of the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA), which replaced the 25-year-old North American Freight Trade Agreement (NAFTA), was another “accelerant” of the nascent trend toward stepped-up production in Mexico, Chhugani says. Then there was the coronavirus pandemic, which temporarily shut down Chinese plants along with many of the passenger plane services required to expedite shipments from China under precisely such a scenario.​
Moving outside of these three, things become far more speculative.

One thing that immediately jumps to my mind is that, without the Iraq War and wider destabilization of the Middle East, the Arab Spring is unlikely to happen; many of cultural causes aren't there and there is no late 2000s spike in fuel prices that helped trigger the more immediate casual factor in terms of food price spikes. Thus, the Middle East keeps a lot of its dictators, but the region is more stable and probably prosperous on the whole. One loser, however, is that lower oil prices likely means Dubai never explodes like it does. Another is Iran; they still have the festering sore of Afghanistan on one side and on the other, Iraq under Saddam for longer and no Assad desperation in Syria helps to check their geopolitical expansion from occurring. Israel might be more inclined to a peace deal with Palestine in this altered geopolitical landscape.

Another, more pressing for our modern times, is the status of Russia. Bush and Putin enjoyed a good relationship during his first term with genuine Russian interest in deepening ties with NATO and the West at large, but ultimately this soured over the course of the 2000s. This can go a lot of ways, and I think depends on who is around Bush in Washington. Hawks like Rumsfeld might not last long without GWOT, and Bush's memoir revealed Cheney nearly left after his heart attack mid-way through the Bush years in favor of Bill Frist; the rest of the Neocons in the Administration would be reduced in influence without these two main characters. It's worth noting Japan, the EU and the United States all saw and still do see the ability to use Russia as leverage on China OTL, so there's strategic reason to do so ITTL.

This probably means coming to an agreement to limit NATO expansion/letting in Russia first and enabling Russia to formalize its strategic conception in the FSU, which means turning CSTO and the CIS into a Russian-led NATO and EU like set of entities (and fits with the in vogue regional bodies thing). Alternatively, without the GWOT distracting them and an emerging Second Cold War, maybe the U.S. goes harder on Russia in the 2000s. Being closer to the Post Soviet chaos and with less revenues from lower fuel prices, Moscow has less room to maneuver while the West has more; perhaps the Orange Revolution in 2004 slips Ukraine out of the Russian sphere a decade sooner than OTL. On the flipside, this will push Russia and China together closer and also sooner than OTL, meaning we get Power of Siberia I and II instead of the Nord Streams, hurting Europe economically while also helping undercut U.S. leverage on China with blockading Beijing.

Finally, I haven't looked to see if there is data or studies backing it up, but one compelling argument I've heard this year is that the Post 9/11 monetary expansion and surveillance state played a key role in bringing about the smartphone era and wider expansion of consumer electronics. In the same way the Space Race and Cold War spending brought a lot of technologies into the civilian sphere, the Iphone and Internet of Things was tied directly into the War on Terror. Undoubtedly the ideas do pre-date 9/11, but the specific forces the event unleashed probably, at the least, helped to expedite these emerging technologies in a way that otherwise wouldn't have happened. Thus, could this ATL see things like smartphones and social media lagging 5 to maybe even 10 years behind OTL? That has profound cultural and economic implications, to say the least.
 
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Some immediate thoughts:

1. There is an economic argument that the Iraq War (and probably Afghanistan too) played a key role in triggering the 2008 Recession, if not as as the primary factor than as an aggravating one. The lack of the Great Recession changes everything going forward, obviously, both in good and bad ways.

2. Contemporary Chinese strategy has its roots in the 9/11 era, in that Beijing realized it had a 20 year timeframe to leverage with the U.S. focused on the Middle East region and fighting the War on Terror. Without that, China's rise may very well have been handicapped by the U.S. paying more focus to it from the 2000s onward:

First, 9/11 offered what Beijing defined as a “window of strategic opportunity” to develop its strength while the United States was acutely distracted. Many Chinese strategists saw 9/11 as the breathing space that bought China another decade to focus on its development without being identified and targeted as the priority challenge for America. During the 2000 US election campaign, presidential candidate George W. Bush had sharply criticised President Bill Clinton’s notion of a “strategic partnership” with China and proposed instead that the United States and China were “strategic competitors”. The United States would not have waited almost another two decades to define China as the most important strategic challenge and vigorously engage in what President Joe Biden now calls the “extreme competition” with China had 9/11 not taken place.​
Such an earlier turn on China could save millions of manufacturing jobs in the United States (and possibly shift some to Mexico, more on that latter), which also plays well into avoiding the Great Recession:

It’s not perfectly clear what, exactly, is the culprit behind relatively anemic growth in manufacturing output. But the signs indicate trade and globalization played a much more significant role than is commonly recognized. Of particular importance is China’s emergence as a major exporter, which US leaders encouraged. A pair of papers by economists David Autor, David Dorn, and Gordon Hanson, found that the parts of the US hit hard by Chinese import competition saw manufacturing job loss, falling wages, and the shrinking of their workforces. They also found that offsetting employment gains in other industries never materialized. Another important paper by this team of economists, along with MIT’s Daron Acemoglu and Brendan Price, estimated that competition from Chinese imports cost the US as many as 2.4 million jobs between 1999 and 2011.​
Why did China have such a big impact? In their 2016 study, economists Justin Pierce and Peter Schott argue that China’s accession to the WTO in 2001—set in motion by president Bill Clinton—sparked a sharp drop in US manufacturing employment. That’s because when China joined the WTO, it extinguished the risk that the US might retaliate against the Chinese government’s mercantilist currency and protectionist industrial policies by raising tariffs. International companies that set up shop in China therefore enjoyed the benefits of cheap labor, as well as a huge competitive edge from the Chinese government’s artificial cheapening of the yuan.​
The resulting appreciation of the dollar hurt US exporters—in particular, manufacturers. A 2017 study on the dollar’s appreciation in the early 2000s by economist Douglas Campbell found that the dollar strengthened sharply, in real terms, compared to low-wage trading partners including China. The subsequent increase in foreign imports and diminished demand for American exports resulted in a loss of around 1.5 million manufacturing jobs between 1995 and 2008.​
There are also observable signs that automation wasn’t to blame. Consider the shuttering of some 78,000 manufacturing plants between 2000 and 2014, a 22% drop. This is odd given that robots, like humans, have to work somewhere. Then there’s the fact that there simply aren’t that many robots in US factories, compared with other advanced economies.​
3. North American Integration would likely be deeper. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, there was a movement for an EU-like entity in North America, with groups like the Independent Task Force on North America and then Mexican President Vincente Fox directly calling for such. The Post 9/11 surge in American Nationalism and focus on the Middle East made this impossible, with the main policy success being the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America being signed in 2005. It is known from leaked diplomatic cables that the U.S. did look for something greater at the time, but Bush ultimately didn't go through with it for the aforementioned reasons.

Without the Post-9/11 Nationalism surge, it's likely in my mind Washington will feel more comfortable going forward with such an audacious plan, especially since the 1990s culture zeitgeist (Where things like the EU were the next big thing) fades away slower rather than abruptly ending. It's worth noting such an idea is being revived in Washington political circles in the context of the emerging Second Cold War, and an earlier confrontation with China could help give it added emphasis in TTL's 2000s. This would be a clear benefit to Mexico, as an aside, given outsourcing to China was most likely to the detriment of Mexican industries. ITTL, Mexico would probably be more clearly "the Eastern Europe" to America's "Germany":

The formation of maquiladoras, factories mostly located in areas close to the U.S. border, kicked off an era of vibrant manufacturing activity in Mexico in the 1960s. For years afterward, they churned out large volumes of components that could be exported to the U.S. duty-free. By the late 1990s, the maquilas were employing more than one million Mexico workers. Further spurring production in Mexico was the launch of regular double-stack train services that carried parts north for U.S. automakers.​
Activity slackened when U.S. companies began shifting production to China, where labor rates were cheaper and more readily available than in Mexico. But recent geopolitical shifts and other factors suggest that Mexico might be poised for another surge of manufacturing activity.​
So believes Deepak Chhugani, founder and chief executive officer of Nuvocargo, a software-centric freight forwarder and customs broker specializing in shipments between Mexico and the U.S. Thanks in part to the U.S.-China trade war, as well as the rising cost of production in China, manufacturers are beginning to turn their attention back to Mexico, he says.​
“For a lot of small importers [from China], the tariffs have become untenable and impossible to pass on,” Chhugani says. “That has made Mexico the obvious alternative.”​
Successful negotiation of the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA), which replaced the 25-year-old North American Freight Trade Agreement (NAFTA), was another “accelerant” of the nascent trend toward stepped-up production in Mexico, Chhugani says. Then there was the coronavirus pandemic, which temporarily shut down Chinese plants along with many of the passenger plane services required to expedite shipments from China under precisely such a scenario.​
Moving outside of these three, things become far more speculative.

One thing that immediately jumps to my mind is that, without the Iraq War and wider destabilization of the Middle East, the Arab Spring is unlikely to happen; many of cultural causes aren't there and there is no late 2000s spike in fuel prices that helped trigger the more immediate casual factor in terms of food price spikes. Thus, the Middle East keeps a lot of its dictators, but the region is more stable and probably prosperous on the whole. One loser, however, is that lower oil prices likely means Dubai never explodes like it does. Another is Iran; they still have the festering sore of Afghanistan on one side and on the other, Iraq under Saddam for longer and no Assad desperation in Syria helps to check their geopolitical expansion from occurring. Israel might be more inclined to a peace deal with Palestine in this altered geopolitical landscape.

Another, more pressing for our modern times, is the status of Russia. Bush and Putin enjoyed a good relationship during his first term with genuine Russian interest in deepening ties with NATO and the West at large, but ultimately this soured over the course of the 2000s. This can go a lot of ways, and I think depends on who is around Bush in Washington. Hawks like Rumsfeld might not last long without GWOT, and Bush's memoir revealed Cheney nearly left after his heart attack mid-way through the Bush years in favor of Bill Frist; the rest of the Neocons in the Administration would be reduced in influence without these two main characters. It's worth noting Japan, the EU and the United States all saw and still do see the ability to use Russia as leverage on China OTL, so there's strategic reason to do so ITTL.

This probably means coming to an agreement to limit NATO expansion/letting in Russia first and enabling Russia to formalize its strategic conception in the FSU, which means turning CSTO and the CIS into a Russian-led NATO and EU like set of entities (and fits with the in vogue regional bodies thing). Alternatively, without the GWOT distracting them and an emerging Second Cold War, maybe the U.S. goes harder on Russia in the 2000s. Being closer to the Post Soviet chaos and with less revenues from lower fuel prices, Moscow has less room to maneuver while the West has more; perhaps the Orange Revolution in 2004 slips Ukraine out of the Russian sphere a decade sooner than OTL. On the flipside, this will push Russia and China together closer and also sooner than OTL, meaning we get Power of Siberia I and II instead of the Nord Streams, hurting Europe economically while also helping undercut U.S. leverage on China with blockading Beijing.

Finally, I haven't looked to see if there is data or studies backing it up, but one compelling argument I've heard this year is that the Post 9/11 monetary expansion and surveillance state played a key role in bringing about the smartphone era and wider expansion of consumer electronics. In the same way the Space Race and Cold War spending brought a lot of technologies into the civilian sphere, the Iphone and Internet of Things was tied directly into the War on Terror. Undoubtedly the ideas do pre-date 9/11, but the specific forces the event unleashed probably, at the least, helped to expedite these emerging technologies in a way that otherwise wouldn't have happened. Thus, could this ATL see things like smartphones and social media lagging 5 to maybe even 10 years behind OTL? That has profound cultural and economic implications, to say the least.
This is probably the best speculation anyone has made of a no-9/11 world, amazing job!
 
Honestly it seems pretty hard to predict both in terms of "is there just Another Big Attack or does Islamist militancy against the US erode for other reasons"

With the US presumably still backing Israel and Saudi Arabia, the main pre-2001 rationales for Islamist attacks on the West are still there, and you can imagine that eventually somebody else would try a plot on the level of 9/11 - of course that's no guarantee that it works, but it can't be ruled out that a different group could just do 9/11 three years later. On the other hand, unless there's a Western invasion of a Muslim country to really get people angry and destabilize things, you'd probably have neither massive upheavals like ISIS nor the dribble of lone-wolf FBI-entrapped terror plots that we saw throughout the late 2000s and 2010s. (This all feels kind of obvious but it merits saying!)

If not for the desensitizing effect of the 2000s surveillance state, would the general public be more skeptical of corporate snooping, data mining, and misuse of their internet privacy later on?
 
With the US presumably still backing Israel and Saudi Arabia, the main pre-2001 rationales for Islamist attacks on the West are still there, and you can imagine that eventually somebody else would try a plot on the level of 9/11 - of course that's no guarantee that it works, but it can't be ruled out that a different group could just do 9/11 three years later. On the other hand, unless there's a Western invasion of a Muslim country to really get people angry and destabilize things, you'd probably have neither massive upheavals like ISIS nor the dribble of lone-wolf FBI-entrapped terror plots that we saw throughout the late 2000s and 2010s. (This all feels kind of obvious but it merits saying!)

If not for the desensitizing effect of the 2000s surveillance state, would the general public be more skeptical of corporate snooping, data mining, and misuse of their internet privacy later on?

That seems pretty plausible-the EFF and other hacktivist groups were big in the 90s. But I think part of this is also more "point and click" computing and less ability of people to control their online paper trail.
 
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With the US presumably still backing Israel and Saudi Arabia, the main pre-2001 rationales for Islamist attacks on the West are still there, and you can imagine that eventually somebody else would try a plot on the level of 9/11 - of course that's no guarantee that it works, but it can't be ruled out that a different group could just do 9/11 three years later. On the other hand, unless there's a Western invasion of a Muslim country to really get people angry and destabilize things, you'd probably have neither massive upheavals like ISIS nor the dribble of lone-wolf FBI-entrapped terror plots that we saw throughout the late 2000s and 2010s. (This all feels kind of obvious but it merits saying!)

If not for the desensitizing effect of the 2000s surveillance state, would the general public be more skeptical of corporate snooping, data mining, and misuse of their internet privacy later on?
Trump of all people feared in 1999 that a radical Islamist group could pull of a suicide bomb attack in Manhattan. I think that could be an alternative, much less traumatic, 9/11 with hundreds instead of thousands being killed, and the US still being dragged into rooting out Al Qaeda.
 
I think that could be an alternative, much less traumatic, 9/11 with hundreds instead of thousands being killed, and the US still being dragged into rooting out Al Qaeda.
I could see terrorist attacks like OKC and July 5th 2005 UK attacks being more common. I doubt a 9/11-style plot ever happens, though. The US under Clinton had fought off an attack from Al-Qaeda back in 1999 during New Years.
 
In the 2000s, a war in Iraq is more likely than a war in Afghanistan. It’s unsure if we end up in the same quagmire down there.
 
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