Scenes We'd Like To See: Alternate Movies, Television & Other Pop Culture Miscellanea

[Coiler]

This is a minor one even within the context of its franchise. There are a lot bigger Pokemon butterflies that range from the series never starting up at all, never becoming ultra-popular, the seizure incident never happening, to even stuff like Pikachu remaining an obscurity rather than becoming its standard bearer.

Erika, who in the final games became a grass-type gym leader in Celadon City, was apparently originally slated to be a ghost-type leader in Lavender Town before it shook out differently.



Some of that concept still appeared in her Gen I design, even though it was being moved away from as early as Yellow (subtly changing the way her clothes were folded to remove the death implication), and every later depiction reinforced her as the grass flower lady. Now the thing is that the actual ghost specialist in Gen I , Elite Agatha, is clearly a normal person-

-and Ghost Erika just from her design is very heavily implied not to be, with her art showing her as some kind of undead. Now, weirdly enough this would increase her prominence far beyond OTL, because Lavender Town became an internet creepypasta campfire story extravaganza from the get go, and having a creepy (insert undead/possession type here) gym leader there would just pour more napalm on the fire.

 

[Neoteros]

A thought: what if Eddie Guerrero survived but, given his health issues, decided to quit professional wrestling and do something else? I think he could've done well enough in Hollywood: his on-ring antics and off-ring skits were insanely entertaining, and he could get serious too - dude made Brock Lesnar almost break character and cry with a monologue on his (very real) drug issues.

He could get into action comedy way before his old pal Dave Bautista, had he been cast in the right movie - since he was from El Paso, a reverse buddy cop comedy with him as the funny guy to Danny Trejo's straight man, with a plot centered on them trying to kick racist hick ass along the border, would've been quite the spectacle.

 

[Qaz_plm]

https://celluloidandcigaretteburns.blogspot.com/2010/12/rumor-alan-tudyk-playing-hank-pym-in.html

 

[frittering]

for @Heat

Among those Peter Gabriel considered asking to produce his first solo album was Todd Rundgren. Now, I may be biased as someone with Philly hippie blood in me, but I think this would've turned out a lot better than Alice Cooper and Kiss (lmao)* alum Boob Ezrin's bloated, maudlin arrangements. Then again, it was Ezrin who first brought Robert Fripp and Tony Levin together for those sessions, and '80s King Crimson best King Crimson, so I'm conflicted.

*tbf todd did pay his own bills producing bad or worse buttrock albums but one cannot deny his early-mid 70s streak of High Art Pop Auteur solo records or his work on xtc's skylarking wrangling andy partridge's control freakery with his own or him giving psychedelic furs' "love my way" the signature marimba riff and flo and eddie outro

 

[OHC]

Apparently Townes Van Zandt and Janis Joplin both considered joining the 13th Floor Elevators, which would surely have resulted in a) some incredible tunes and b) the most self-destructive collection of musicians in history

 

[RyanF]

Mulling over a project (what, another one? Ed.) for later in the year and am touting for suggestions related to it.

I'm looking for people to give me films that went through some form of development hell. Some examples of what I mean:

Films Never Made:

• A Confederacy of Dunces adaptation - they've been trying to adapt this 1980 novel since at least 1982 with no success and between John Belushi, John Candy and Chris Farley all being linked with the lead has attracted a reputation as being cursed.
• Stanley Kubrick's Napoleon - Kubrick wanted to make this epic biographical film of the French emperor following 2001 and had even begun putting out feelers to the Romanian People's Army to be extras in the battle scenes. Cancelled allegedly due to location cost.
• Superman Lives - this is the infamous late 90s film of the character that was originally required Superman to 1) not fly and 2) fight a giant spider. Went through a ton of different directors before they all just started to decline and it was abandoned entirely.

Films Made But Radically Different:

• Alien 3 - the six years between Aliens and Alien³ saw multiple scripts submitted before the one they settled on including Space Commies in Mallworld and Space Monks on a wooden planet. Sigourney Weaver's involvement or lack thereof contributing.
• Jaws 3, People 0 - the second sequel to Jaws was originally meant to be a parody of natural horror films from the producers and writers of National Lampoon's Animal House and directed by Joe Dante before Universal got cold feet and instead went for the familiar.
• Shrek - the title character was originally voiced by Chris Farley and was portrayed as more cynical before Farley passed away during production and Mike Myers brought in to replace him. Myers's signed on with the condition of a complete script re-write.

Films Only Made After Many Years:

• The Bodyguard - this 1992 film starring Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston was originally meant to enter production for a 1978 release starring Ryan O'Neal and Diana Ross. Ross wound up pulling out and the film went unmade for more than a decade.
• A Princess of Mars - the irony in Disney releasing a live-action adaptation of Edgar Rice Burroughs's novel in 2011 when, had the original attempt been successful, it might have beaten Disney's Snow White as the first successful animated feature.
• Indiana Jones 4 - Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny will be released the summer of this year, and it finally completes the original 1979 deal between George Lucas and Steven Spielberg with Paramount for five films. Better late than never I suppose.

Lots and lots more, including some obvious ones I've not given as examples (Night Skies). I've already got a decent list sourced from Wiki, myself and friends, but also want to hear suggestions from the floor.

Which tales of development hell in the film industry does everyone find the most interesting?

 

[Yokai Man]

Mulling over a project (what, another one? Ed.) for later in the year and am touting for suggestions related to it.

I'm looking for people to give me films that went through some form of development hell. Some examples of what I mean:

Films Never Made:

• A Confederacy of Dunces adaptation - they've been trying to adapt this 1980 novel since at least 1982 with no success and between John Belushi, John Candy and Chris Farley all being linked with the lead has attracted a reputation as being cursed.
• Stanley Kubrick's Napoleon - Kubrick wanted to make this epic biographical film of the French emperor following 2001 and had even begun putting out feelers to the Romanian People's Army to be extras in the battle scenes. Cancelled allegedly due to location cost.
• Superman Lives - this is the infamous late 90s film of the character that was originally required Superman to 1) not fly and 2) fight a giant spider. Went through a ton of different directors before they all just started to decline and it was abandoned entirely.

Films Made But Radically Different:

• Alien 3 - the six years between Aliens and Alien³ saw multiple scripts submitted before the one they settled on including Space Commies in Mallworld and Space Monks on a wooden planet. Sigourney Weaver's involvement or lack thereof contributing.
• Jaws 3, People 0 - the second sequel to Jaws was originally meant to be a parody of natural horror films from the producers and writers of National Lampoon's Animal House and directed by Joe Dante before Universal got cold feet and instead went for the familiar.
• Shrek - the title character was originally voiced by Chris Farley and was portrayed as more cynical before Farley passed away during production and Mike Myers brought in to replace him. Myers's signed on with the condition of a complete script re-write.

Films Only Made After Many Years:

• The Bodyguard - this 1992 film starring Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston was originally meant to enter production for a 1978 release starring Ryan O'Neal and Diana Ross. Ross wound up pulling out and the film went unmade for more than a decade.
• A Princess of Mars - the irony in Disney releasing a live-action adaptation of Edgar Rice Burroughs's novel in 2011 when, had the original attempt been successful, it might have beaten Disney's Snow White as the first successful animated feature.
• Indiana Jones 4 - Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny will be released the summer of this year, and it finally completes the original 1979 deal between George Lucas and Steven Spielberg with Paramount for five films. Better late than never I suppose.

Lots and lots more, including some obvious ones I've not given as examples (Night Skies). I've already got a decent list sourced from Wiki, myself and friends, but also want to hear suggestions from the floor.

Which tales of development hell in the film industry does everyone find the most interesting?

That movie about the Crusades that Paul Verhoeven wanted to make but never really came to be due to various reasons.

 

[Coiler]

Which tales of development hell in the film industry does everyone find the most interesting?

The total failure to make a Mack Bolan movie (which always gets tried and always keeps falling through) even at the height of the novels popularity and with a very good and cheap premise.

 

[Time Enough]

Which tales of development hell in the film industry does everyone find the most interesting?

Jeremy Thomas would try several times to get a production of J.G. Ballard’s High Rise;

One was a Production in the late 70s, intended to be directed by Nicolas Roeg and written by Paul Mayersberg. A script by Rudy Wurlitzer would make the rounds for awhile and was at one point meant to be adapted by Vincenzo Natali.

Natali would then try and make his own adaptation working on a script by Richard Stanley, which was meant to be less a direct adaptation and more a High Rise 2.0 weird idea.

In the end, these didn’t happen and we got the Ben Wheatley version instead.

 

[Charles EP M.]

Mulling over a project (what, another one? Ed.) for later in the year and am touting for suggestions related to it.

I'm looking for people to give me films that went through some form of development hell. Some examples of what I mean:

Gemini Man was first sold in 1997, bouncing around for years and beaten repeatedly by how you portray a young clone of the same guy & sell it, with a decision that digital effects weren't good enough yet during another go in 2009.

Mad Max Fury Road has a really, really long development hell, first inspired in the mid-to-late 90s when Miller was called in for a pitch for a Mad Max show and it gave him idea. Almost happened in 2001 with Mel Gibson but then September 11 battered the economy; Miller kept coming back to it over and over before finally getting it done.

And then there's Godzilla: King of the Monsters in 3D by Steve "Friday the 13th 3D" Miner and Fred Dekker in 1983, which never got made but got oddly close including Miner selling Toho on the idea despite only having two Fridays on his CV at the time! (Dekker lamented in one interview that if it got made, they'd have done Rodan next and he was more interested in that)

 

[Charles EP M.]

Oh, and Film Stories #11 had a feature on unmade 2000AD films. Not just any planned Judge Dredd and Dredd sequels, but:

* Rogue Trooper in the 90s, with Joel Silver involved but killed off when WB got cold feet about their deal with Silver after several of his films had underperformed. Quoth a source on the script, "Rogue wasn't even called Rogue in it." Harley Cokeliss tried to keep it going with other writers after Judge Dredd, including Peter Briggs who would do Hellboy later, but that didn't work out. Rogue got another shot in 2011 with Rogue One scriptwriter Gary Whitta involved, but it died out in the concept art stage.

* Discussions in the late 90s about Strontium Dog, Outlaw, and maybe some others by Fleetway Film & Television - which died achieving nothing - and Peter Briggs agitating for studios to option strips so he could write them,

* Outlaw again in 2001 with Andrew Upton announced as director and Lloyd Fonevielle as writer on a $15m budget, as part of Rebellion's 2000AD Entertainment stab, but it quietly died. (Outlaw is a one-off you've never heard of)

* Entertainment struck a two-picture deal with Shoreline Entertainment at the end of 2001 for two Dredd films, Dredd Reckoning and Possession (this one with Judge Death). THis one I remember the website and comics trumpeting but, again, developmental hell.

* 2004, Silvio Astarita as producer is attached to new Dredd plans with Ringo Lam involved and comic writer Gordon Rennie on script, all with Dark Judges. That never happens.

* Jon Wright wanted to do Slaine and according to Pat Mills, his offer was trumped by a bigger one that fell through. (WRight's got a Film Stories podcast interview where he mentions this too but I haven't listened yet)

* Duncan Moon was talking about a Rogue Trooper film around 2019 but that seems to have fizzled out around covid.

* Button Man constantly in development hell

 

[Time Enough]

Oh, and Film Stories #11 had a feature on unmade 2000AD films.

I remember a fella who worked at Wellington Films was assigned a project to find a 2000AD comic from the library so Rebellion and folks could possibly start pitching it, it wasn’t allowed to be Science Fiction based.

It ended up me going, “Read Savage” constantly.

 

[Charles EP M.]

it wasn’t allowed to be Science Fiction based.

FInally, I Was A Teenage Tax Consultant gets a time to shine!

 

[RyanF]

That movie about the Crusades that Paul Verhoeven wanted to make but never really came to be due to various reasons.

The total failure to make a Mack Bolan movie (which always gets tried and always keeps falling through) even at the height of the novels popularity and with a very good and cheap premise.

Jeremy Thomas would try several times to get a production of J.G. Ballard’s High Rise;

One was a Production in the late 70s, intended to be directed by Nicolas Roeg and written by Paul Mayersberg. A script by Rudy Wurlitzer would make the rounds for awhile and was at one point meant to be adapted by Vincenzo Natali.

Natali would then try and make his own adaptation working on a script by Richard Stanley, which was meant to be less a direct adaptation and more a High Rise 2.0 weird idea.

In the end, these didn’t happen and we got the Ben Wheatley version instead.

Gemini Man was first sold in 1997, bouncing around for years and beaten repeatedly by how you portray a young clone of the same guy & sell it, with a decision that digital effects weren't good enough yet during another go in 2009.

Mad Max Fury Road has a really, really long development hell, first inspired in the mid-to-late 90s when Miller was called in for a pitch for a Mad Max show and it gave him idea. Almost happened in 2001 with Mel Gibson but then September 11 battered the economy; Miller kept coming back to it over and over before finally getting it done.

And then there's Godzilla: King of the Monsters in 3D by Steve "Friday the 13th 3D" Miner and Fred Dekker in 1983, which never got made but got oddly close including Miner selling Toho on the idea despite only having two Fridays on his CV at the time! (Dekker lamented in one interview that if it got made, they'd have done Rodan next and he was more interested in that)

Thanks for the suggestions, folks!

 

[AH Layard]

The Kubrick Napoleon film would have been amazing but I'm glad we got Barry Lyndon which is my favourite of his work. I think he was considering doing Lord of the Rings at one point?

I think The Fate of Atlantis game would have made a great Indy 4 film.

 

[RyanF]

The Kubrick Napoleon film would have been amazing but I'm glad we got Barry Lyndon which is my favourite of his work. I think he was considering doing Lord of the Rings at one point?

He was shortlisted for the proposed Apple/United Artists adaptation that was at one point meant to star The Beatles, Donovan and Twiggy.

 

[Charles EP M.]

Tintin in the Land of the Spartacists: Tintin visits the Germanic People's Republic in an attempt to unveil the dark secrets behind Luxembourg's so-called 'Red Miracle'.

Tintin in the Congo: In a visit to the colonies, Tintin discovers apparently well-meaning Americans trying to sell the Belgians on a League Mandate are really agents for Al Capone.

Tintin in America: Tintin goes to expose and battle the mobs of Chicago, but finds they've riddled America's government and are hostile to Europeans.

Secrets of the Thugee: While reporting on India's new status as a dominion, Tintin is targeted by an international opium smuggling ring.

The Blue Lotus: Tintin tracks the drug dealers to Shanghai, crossing the Japanese government itself.

The Broken Ear: The mob-riddled America is attempting to provoke a war for profit in South America and Tintin has to save the day again.

The Lost Colossus: Investigating the strange disappearances of archaeologists in Italian-occupied Rhodes leads Tintin into a spy conflict between the fascists and the English.

King Ottokar's Sceptre: With Italian and communist agents both trying to topple the Balkan nation of Syldavia, can Tintin save the day?

The Crab with the Golden Claws: Opium smugglers are at work and Tintin is on the run with his old ally, Royal Naval Intelligence's Captain Haddock.

The core 'canon' of Tintin was interrupted by the aftermath of the Italo-British War/War of the Mediterranean and the fall of the troubled post-Mussolini government. Belgian volunteers fought on both sides of the resulting Italian Civil War and Tintin's next eighteen months were spent as a soldier with the Royalist forces. While initially popular, this left the strip tainted by associations with events like the Rape of Lombardy.

The strip was revived several times, including by Herge with the 50s/60s "Destination Moon" series of bandes-dessins, but no revival has surpassed the original 'boy reporter' run.

 

[RyanF]

Tintin in the Land of the Spartacists: Tintin visits the Germanic People's Republic in an attempt to unveil the dark secrets behind Luxembourg's so-called 'Red Miracle'.

Tintin in the Congo: In a visit to the colonies, Tintin discovers apparently well-meaning Americans trying to sell the Belgians on a League Mandate are really agents for Al Capone.

Tintin in America: Tintin goes to expose and battle the mobs of Chicago, but finds they've riddled America's government and are hostile to Europeans.

Secrets of the Thugee: While reporting on India's new status as a dominion, Tintin is targeted by an international opium smuggling ring.

The Blue Lotus: Tintin tracks the drug dealers to Shanghai, crossing the Japanese government itself.

The Broken Ear: The mob-riddled America is attempting to provoke a war for profit in South America and Tintin has to save the day again.

The Lost Colossus: Investigating the strange disappearances of archaeologists in Italian-occupied Rhodes leads Tintin into a spy conflict between the fascists and the English.

King Ottokar's Sceptre: With Italian and communist agents both trying to topple the Balkan nation of Syldavia, can Tintin save the day?

The Crab with the Golden Claws: Opium smugglers are at work and Tintin is on the run with his old ally, Royal Naval Intelligence's Captain Haddock.

The core 'canon' of Tintin was interrupted by the aftermath of the Italo-British War/War of the Mediterranean and the fall of the troubled post-Mussolini government. Belgian volunteers fought on both sides of the resulting Italian Civil War and Tintin's next eighteen months were spent as a soldier with the Royalist forces. While initially popular, this left the strip tainted by associations with events like the Rape of Lombardy.

The strip was revived several times, including by Herge with the 50s/60s "Destination Moon" series of bandes-dessins, but no revival has surpassed the original 'boy reporter' run.

This Thread needs more lists.

 

[Yokai Man]

Sammy Steiner,Esquire [1965] : inspired by Anthony “Tino” De Angelis and the world recession (as well as Goscinny coming across a book about Silver Democrats and Gold Republicans),the story has Lucky Luke face against conman Sam “Sammy” Steiner,former stock broker responsible for causing numerous recessions,who teams up with the Daltons and starts a war between the Silvers and the Goldies by promoting a new currency,made of platinum (in reality tin foil)

Considered by many Lucky Luke fans of being one of Luke’s most difficult rivals,Steiner would end being undone by turning the Daltons against each other while running with the money and double crossing them,leaving him though with no one to carry the bags. He is shown giving financial advice to the prison warden in the last panels and would show up again in other installments.

Loose Cannon [1968] : Lucky Luke is forced to deal with Sheriff Leo Silverback (an obvious parody of both President Barry Goldwater and Leonid Brezhnev),a paranoid jingonist loose trigger who often destroys more than he saves when fighting crime and is self appointed judge,jury and executioner of the town,which has the biggest jail in the county-big enough to overshadow the sun. Silverback turns on Luke and accuses him of being a Mexican Comanche in the pay of the James Gang after Luke condemns him for destroying the local Indian reservation,the school and the bank just to catch someone who littered and tries to stop the Sheriff from using the Gatling on the people.

Black Bart's Revenge [1971] : in a change from the usual (Goscinny wanted to try something new out of boredom),Lucky Luke is put into a detective mystery and trying to find a recently escaped Black Bart and stop him from enacting his vengence on James B Hume,legendary Wild West sleuth.

 

[zaffre]

This is a minor one even within the context of its franchise. There are a lot bigger Pokemon butterflies that range from the series never starting up at all, never becoming ultra-popular, the seizure incident never happening, to even stuff like Pikachu remaining an obscurity rather than becoming its standard bearer.

Erika, who in the final games became a grass-type gym leader in Celadon City, was apparently originally slated to be a ghost-type leader in Lavender Town before it shook out differently.



Some of that concept still appeared in her Gen I design, even though it was being moved away from as early as Yellow (subtly changing the way her clothes were folded to remove the death implication), and every later depiction reinforced her as the grass flower lady. Now the thing is that the actual ghost specialist in Gen I , Elite Agatha, is clearly a normal person-

-and Ghost Erika just from her design is very heavily implied not to be, with her art showing her as some kind of undead. Now, weirdly enough this would increase her prominence far beyond OTL, because Lavender Town became an internet creepypasta campfire story extravaganza from the get go, and having a creepy (insert undead/possession type here) gym leader there would just pour more napalm on the fire.

Using this to (subtly) foreshadow my return to nuzlocke-posting, but in loads of ways the pivotal moment in the Pokémon franchise was Gen 2. Most obviously, they wanted to milk the end of the fad (lol) and originally designed the region to cover all of Japan. Aside from clear scale issues, that uses up some later regions - you could see Gen 3 in the US and Gen 4 in France, if they follow the OTL trajectory. Completely changes the theming of each of the games, since it’s heavily location-based.

The draft type chart was also wildly different for Dark / Steel, which has loads of butterfrees. Even a minor change, like Dark resisting Psychic rather than being fully immune to it, would make Dark / Psychic / Fighting an “perfect” type trio and the pressure to use it for starters might actually amount to something.