The fact that we're dealing here with yet another crazy "libertarian" brings to mind The Probability Broach by L. Neil Smith. Shays' Rebellion is successful, the stillborn US is replaced by the North American Confederacy, and Ayn Rand-style anarcho-capitalism brings humankind to a golden age of prosperity and technological wonders.
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Least favorite alt-history story?
- Thread starter Resurgam
- Start date
Were you on the forum (under either username) when Linkwerk wrote his objectivist Katanga TL? Rand and a load of followers go there to set up a glorious objectivist society. Needless to say, it doesn't quite go to plan.The fact that we're dealing here with yet another crazy "libertarian" brings to mind The Probability Broach by L. Neil Smith. Shays' Rebellion is successful, the stillborn US is replaced by the North American Confederacy, and Ayn Rand-style anarcho-capitalism brings humankind to a golden age of prosperity and technological wonders.
Really enjoyed that. Shame the author drifted away.
- Location
- Albany, NY
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It was the Whiskey Rebellion. It was also clearly just a silly comic even if the author is a *clutches pearls* libertarian.The fact that we're dealing here with yet another crazy "libertarian" brings to mind The Probability Broach by L. Neil Smith. Shays' Rebellion is successful, the stillborn US is replaced by the North American Confederacy, and Ayn Rand-style anarcho-capitalism brings humankind to a golden age of prosperity and technological wonders.
I read the first few chapters but my interest eventually waned. The concept was definitely an original one, though.Were you on the forum (under either username) when Linkwerk wrote his objectivist Katanga TL? Rand and a load of followers go there to set up a glorious objectivist society. Needless to say, it doesn't quite go to plan.
Really enjoyed that. Shame the author drifted away.
Smith takes his ideology very seriously, and very much intended Broach to be an object lesson in the superiority of anarcho-capitalism.It was the Whiskey Rebellion. It was also clearly just a silly comic even if the author is a *clutches pearls* libertarian.
I lurked on their forum from time to time before they made the politics section members-only. It was a constant wankfest of far-right groupthink. I was surprised to see that some otherwise respectable people, like that guy who writes A Blunted Sickle, are signed up there.
The first part of The Salvation War seemed decent enough when I first read it and I think I read it on that forum although I can't remember if I signed up. Slade's politics don't really leak into that much other than the edgy atheism, which for a lot of people going through that phase is actually kind of appealing even if it's embarrassing afterwards.
ViktorVonVibblestein
Member
The Salvation War is, to my mind, an object lesson in playing to, and playing, the politics of your audience. It wasn't originally written for his own forums. (Even alternate history has a history of its' own).
It came about as a writing challenge on, of all things, a Star Wars fan site, run by a social- libertarian militant atheist engineer with pretentions, ambitions, whichever, of putting some science back in science fiction; which I also happened to be a member of at the time.
The audience were mostly university educated, large minority of STEM, mostly Dawkinsite, and covered the political spectrum from the left wing of the Democratic Party to the Fifth International, and it is them that it was aimed at- with a fair bit of reverse top spin, by an English Tory expat who had since become a Reagan Republican.
Large parts of the politics of the story are to all intents and purposes a wind up; gradually pulling the ground out from its' audience's feet, starting in deep blue land and ending with getting them to applaud an essentially conservative message.
As I recall it, we only twigged when someone looked him up as a contributor on NavWeaps and asked "Why on earth would this person write this story?" Never mind Rick, we got Slade- rolled, trolled, on a fairly epic scale.
It took on a life of it's own, of course, later, which is not bad for what was essentially a Republican outreach project. Oh, and never assume that the author is playing it straight. Especially not if they show signs of a puckish sense of humour.
It came about as a writing challenge on, of all things, a Star Wars fan site, run by a social- libertarian militant atheist engineer with pretentions, ambitions, whichever, of putting some science back in science fiction; which I also happened to be a member of at the time.
The audience were mostly university educated, large minority of STEM, mostly Dawkinsite, and covered the political spectrum from the left wing of the Democratic Party to the Fifth International, and it is them that it was aimed at- with a fair bit of reverse top spin, by an English Tory expat who had since become a Reagan Republican.
Large parts of the politics of the story are to all intents and purposes a wind up; gradually pulling the ground out from its' audience's feet, starting in deep blue land and ending with getting them to applaud an essentially conservative message.
As I recall it, we only twigged when someone looked him up as a contributor on NavWeaps and asked "Why on earth would this person write this story?" Never mind Rick, we got Slade- rolled, trolled, on a fairly epic scale.
It took on a life of it's own, of course, later, which is not bad for what was essentially a Republican outreach project. Oh, and never assume that the author is playing it straight. Especially not if they show signs of a puckish sense of humour.
Creekmench
A shade of indigo
- Pronouns
- He/him
The Salvation War is, to my mind, an object lesson in playing to, and playing, the politics of your audience. It wasn't originally written for his own forums. (Even alternate history has a history of its' own).
It came about as a writing challenge on, of all things, a Star Wars fan site, run by a social- libertarian militant atheist engineer with pretentions, ambitions, whichever, of putting some science back in science fiction; which I also happened to be a member of at the time.
The audience were mostly university educated, large minority of STEM, mostly Dawkinsite, and covered the political spectrum from the left wing of the Democratic Party to the Fifth International, and it is them that it was aimed at- with a fair bit of reverse top spin, by an English Tory expat who had since become a Reagan Republican.
Large parts of the politics of the story are to all intents and purposes a wind up; gradually pulling the ground out from its' audience's feet, starting in deep blue land and ending with getting them to applaud an essentially conservative message.
As I recall it, we only twigged when someone looked him up as a contributor on NavWeaps and asked "Why on earth would this person write this story?" Never mind Rick, we got Slade- rolled, trolled, on a fairly epic scale.
It took on a life of it's own, of course, later, which is not bad for what was essentially a Republican outreach project. Oh, and never assume that the author is playing it straight. Especially not if they show signs of a puckish sense of humour.
It could've been a fun pulpy story but with Slade's lack of writing ability it floundered.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Skinny87 needs to write up his review of that story in complete form.
The introductory chapter is nearly finished
- Location
- Coventry
Well, for all that the first book isn't quite as bad, the rest of The Big One is pretty terrible.
The first book I mentioned in the review is the best part. Then it just goes bonkers. The surviving Germans in Russia manage to hold on for several years(!) and then retreat into the Middle East, where they join a talcman "caliphate" that has multiple caliphs and is de facto led by Kohmeini (I shouldn't need to explain how inaccurate this is). On the other side of Asia, the pop-history "China absorbs its conquerors" trope applies to Imperial Japan and you get -Chipan. Yes, it's called that. All these exist solely to provide pop-up targets for SAC's super-bombers without the evil McNamara to cancel them.
The real presidents all appear, simply so the immortal Mary Sue advisors can praise (Reagan) or scold them (Everyone else). Yes, there are immortal Mary Sue advisors in what otherwise prides itself on its realism. And a lack of other butterflies, there's still a Falklands invasion in 1982 (only with more toys), and the fighting in Southeast Asia in the late 1980s that dooms Chipan and kills its leader Masanobu Tsuiji is full of names from the real Vietnam War to the point where either the author was lazy in choosing them or these geriatrics were dragging themselves to the front line (including Ho Chi Minh, who appears long after he died of natural causes. I could nitpick a lot more, but you get the idea.
Trust me when I say that the author, as the years went by, got kinda weird with regard to his politics. As in, he was always right-wing, but he went kinda from sensible albeit someone I disagreed with to full on Obama Derangement Syndrome.
And his writing suffered for it, I think.
I remember reading some of Nuttal's stuff when I was starting out in AH, because it was all available as PDF's I could read on the way to school. I remember finding them a bit iffy (especially the one where there's a Muslim Party that is transparently there as a plot device so all the Muslims will self deport to Saudi Arabia) but they were also incredibly dull. Makes Turtledove at his worst look like sodding Redline. Unsuprising that he later started palling around with Tom Kratman, given their shared dirth of talent.
Creekmench
A shade of indigo
- Pronouns
- He/him
I remember reading some of Nuttal's stuff when I was starting out in AH, because it was all available as PDF's I could read on the way to school. I remember finding them a bit iffy (especially the one where there's a Muslim Party that is transparently there as a plot device so all the Muslims will self deport to Saudi Arabia) but they were also incredibly dull. Makes Turtledove at his worst look like sodding Redline. Unsuprising that he later started palling around with Tom Kratman, given their shared dirth of talent.
Didn't he had an obsession with Saudi Arabia and think all Muslims want to act out Saudi policy for some reason? I've always wondered how he managed to write a lot?
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but they were also incredibly dull. Makes Turtledove at his worst look like sodding Redline. Unsuprising that he later started palling around with Tom Kratman, given their shared dirth of talent.
I've read a few of Nuttall's works as well and I can back this up. If I couldn't find anything that objectionable, it's probably because my eyes glazed over at the dull prose.
Didn't he had an obsession with Saudi Arabia and think all Muslims want to act out Saudi policy for some reason? I've always wondered how he managed to write a lot?
He was generally extremely iffy on Islam, yes. Which was odd given that IIRC his girlfriend was Muslim. As for his output, he basically wrote the same characters over and over again, and never strayed from the tritest possible settings, so after that it's really just putting the words together in a vaguely intelligible order and you can crank that shit out.
Creekmench
A shade of indigo
- Pronouns
- He/him
He was generally extremely iffy on Islam, yes. Which was odd given that IIRC his girlfriend was Muslim. As for his output, he basically wrote the same characters over and over again, and never strayed from the tritest possible settings, so after that it's really just putting the words together in a vaguely intelligible order and you can crank that shit out.
I tried reading Ark Royal but gave up when its just modern politics with spaceships.
- Location
- Balham
- Pronouns
- he/him
I have a lot of love for the big Turtley boi, but have to admit I gave up on The War That Came Early after I got to the end of East And West and realised it had ended in the same place the previous book had, except, like, two POV characters had been randomly killed. The churn was real, and I just didn't care. First series I've given up on.
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- He/Him
I have a lot of love for the big Turtley boi, but have to admit I gave up on The War That Came Early after I got to the end of East And West and realised it had ended in the same place the previous book had, except, like, two POV characters had been randomly killed. The churn was real, and I just didn't care. First series I've given up on.
I can't tell if he's run out of ideas, or has just mentally turned into Colin Forbes and is incapable of generating anything other than a madlibs ripoff of his old, original, writing
Yes he likes to screw the British and others.I've never read a Turtledove.
I tried reading the Worldwar series and lost all interest after it fixated on "screw screw."
I think he has a lot of good 'ideas', but that's precisely the issue- what's an idea worth if you're not able to make it compelling?I can't tell if he's run out of ideas, or has just mentally turned into Colin Forbes and is incapable of generating anything other than a madlibs ripoff of his old, original, writing
napoleon IV
Sheer Animal Cunning of the Groundhog
- Location
- Washington, Douglass Commonwealth
- Pronouns
- he/him
Speaking of Turtledove, In the Presence of Mine Enemies was just awful. The premise is that the Nazis win the war, and we follow a German family. Then the twist: the family is Jewish, and are passing as Gentiles in order to survive persecution. This is actually a really great premise, but Turtledove wastes it by having most of the novel be about a seduction plot (and being Turtledove, this means horribly unsexy sex scenes). Finally, Turtledove tries to do parallelism with the fall of the USSR, because he can't be arsed to think through what a victorious Nazi Germany would look like.I have a lot of love for the big Turtley boi, but have to admit I gave up on The War That Came Early after I got to the end of East And West and realised it had ended in the same place the previous book had, except, like, two POV characters had been randomly killed. The churn was real, and I just didn't care. First series I've given up on.