Alternate History General Discussion

[SultanArda]

He didn't finish it and didn't post a draft. It wasn't one last chapter it was going to be a fair bit of content to go.

Oh...
I now feel a bit... sad.
I was rereading the timeline, but, given that there is no plan... I guess I would just abandon that rereading plan.
Also, by remaining chapter, I meant the remaining sections, which I guessed is like twenty more chapters?

 

[History Learner]

Been thinking about a Three Way Cold War TL lately, with the 80th Anniversary of the Battle of Kursk coming up.

 

[SultanArda]

Are there any dystopian 1990s timelines you can suggest to me?
(I read Spiralling Out of Control)

 

[Coiler]

Zhironovskys Russian Empire?

 

[SultanArda]

Zhironovskys Russian Empire?

It could work, yeah.
Though, I am sad that Pellegrino never used the terrible situation of Turkish politics in his story, considering Zhirinovsky has a weird hatred for Turks and Turkey always had a Eurasianist coalition of sorts (their only unifying goal is that they hate the USA and love China/Russia) consisting of businessmen that gain all their money from Russia, disgruntled military officers and leftists. (And, also, let us not forget Doğu Perinçek)

 

[Coiler]

Least implausible (yes I know) 51st+ state that isn't Puerto Rico or DC and wouldn't made by splitting an existing state?

 

[varyar]

Least implausible (yes I know) 51st+ state that isn't Puerto Rico or DC and wouldn't made by splitting an existing state?

Historically, probably Cuba.

Today, geez... Greenland maybe? (I know, very low probability)

 

[Jared]

Least implausible (yes I know) 51st+ state that isn't Puerto Rico or DC and wouldn't made by splitting an existing state?

Anywhere in northern Mexico. As has been touched on before, Anyone But Trist as negotiator would have resulted in the US-Mexican border being further south after the Mexican-American War than it ended up being in OTL.

Cuba was possible if the divergence was early enough, but would have required a bigger divergence than just a different negtotiator - Spain was not likely to sell, and had a decent chance of defending Cuba from any hypothetical invasion up to the 1860s at least. 1890s America was not hugely interested in acquiring direct control of Cuba.

 

[MAC161]

Least implausible (yes I know) 51st+ state that isn't Puerto Rico or DC and wouldn't made by splitting an existing state?

Maybe outside the plausibility limits here, but perhaps Santo Domingo (i.e. the Dominican Republic) if the Reconstruction-era annexation treaty had somehow been ratified/implemented?

 

[Walpurgisnacht]

Attempting to partition South Texas off from the North have historically been pretty popular, and there’s a stipulation in Texas’ annexation treaty that lets it divide into up to 5 states without Congress having to get involved.

 

[I Saw A Red Sky]

US's never really wanted to integrate its periphery much (Hawaii's kinda special in how colonization happened) so Cuba, DR, etc. probably would just stay puppet governments or nebulous territories with no/limited rights if they came into the fold more permanently. BC maybe?

 

[Jared]

US's never really wanted to integrate its periphery much (Hawaii's kinda special in how colonization happened) so Cuba, DR, etc. probably would just stay puppet governments or nebulous territories with no/limited rights if they came into the fold more permanently. BC maybe?

If somehow acquired pre-ACW, Cuba has a strong chance of having statehood pushed through - “free-slave state balance” and so forth. Much lower chance post-ACW.

 

[SpanishSpy]

 

[JesterBL]

Attempting to partition South Texas off from the North have historically been pretty popular, and there’s a stipulation in Texas’ annexation treaty that lets it divide into up to 5 states without Congress having to get involved.

Never been tested by the courts, but my understanding of the consensus view is that there was no way to do an end-run around the process of Congressional approval for a division of a state and that the language admitting Texas with such a power was null and void.

 

[Japhy]

Never been tested by the courts, but my understanding of the consensus view is that there was no way to do an end-run around the process of Congressional approval for a division of a state and that the language admitting Texas with such a power was null and void.

Not to mention there's also the pretty sound contention that lands the Republic claimed now make up parts of Wyoming, Colorado, Oklahoma and New Mexico so the five state rule has already been met.

 

[Matt]

Not to mention there's also the pretty sound contention that lands the Republic claimed now make up parts of Wyoming, Colorado, Oklahoma and New Mexico so the five state rule has already been met.

Damn. That’s fucking clever and historically sound.

 

[Japhy]

Damn. That’s fucking clever and historically sound.

I'd check the annexation bill to make sure this is sound but I really don't want to.

 

[History Learner]

Anywhere in northern Mexico. As has been touched on before, Anyone But Trist as negotiator would have resulted in the US-Mexican border being further south after the Mexican-American War than it ended up being in OTL.

Cuba was possible if the divergence was early enough, but would have required a bigger divergence than just a different negtotiator - Spain was not likely to sell, and had a decent chance of defending Cuba from any hypothetical invasion up to the 1860s at least. 1890s America was not hugely interested in acquiring direct control of Cuba.

There was an offer to sell Cuba informally in 1870 by Spain. The Black Warrior Affair in 1854 was also a very good PoD.

 

[History Learner]

US's never really wanted to integrate its periphery much (Hawaii's kinda special in how colonization happened) so Cuba, DR, etc. probably would just stay puppet governments or nebulous territories with no/limited rights if they came into the fold more permanently. BC maybe?

Very easily could've happened in the late 1860s, and been codified as an alternative solution to the Alabama Claims. Seward's Attempt to Annex British Columbia, 1865-1869 by David E. Shi (Pacific Historical Review, Vol. 47, No. 2 (May, 1978), pp. 217-238):

The Oxford professor, Goldwin Smith, who later emigrated to Canada, advised Seward that Canada "seems likely (unless our statesmen adopt a different policy) to fall into your hands of itself, perhaps before you want it." The London Times echoed Smith's assessment, reporting that Britain would not object if Canadians wished to join the United States, but if a union was promulgated by force, Her Majesty's government would protest. This was a common view of British scholars and politicians, who had little faith in Canada's future and even less regard for her aspirations for dominion.

 

[Coiler]

FWIW, Fivethirtyeight did a hypothetical goofy exercise where OTL Texas was indeed broken up into five different states.