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- Albany, NY
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- She/Her
Its utterly without basis.
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Alternate History General Discussion
- Thread starter Elektronaut
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- he/him
My sister's an actor, and even more than authors, acting is a profession absolutely riddled with cultists of bad mental health. Trauma is truth, truth is beauty, beauty is art, so if you're not seeking some new depth of depression you're not a true artist. You know the type of bullshit.
Anyhow, she was on a show once where one of the producers had a friend who was coming by to say hello. The friend was pretty successful in the field, and offered to sit down with the young up and coming actors to give them a talk about careers and so forth.
The guy talks about networking, and keeping good relationships, and tricks to TV as opposed to live work.
And then he says (I'm paraphrasing): 'above all, try and work regular hours so you can go home and spend time with your partner or family. Get up in the morning, have a cup of coffee, go for a jog, whatever works for you. Unhealthy people produce unhealthy work.'
Tim Minchin's a smart man.
Anyhow, she was on a show once where one of the producers had a friend who was coming by to say hello. The friend was pretty successful in the field, and offered to sit down with the young up and coming actors to give them a talk about careers and so forth.
The guy talks about networking, and keeping good relationships, and tricks to TV as opposed to live work.
And then he says (I'm paraphrasing): 'above all, try and work regular hours so you can go home and spend time with your partner or family. Get up in the morning, have a cup of coffee, go for a jog, whatever works for you. Unhealthy people produce unhealthy work.'
Tim Minchin's a smart man.
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ChrisNuttall
Well-known member
While I have had almost no feedback at all, so I have largely given up on posting anything major to the forum.
It might be worth setting up some kind of agreement - I'll comment on your stuff if you comment on mine - but i don't know how workable it would be. I've commented in depth on some people elsewhere and they've responded, but others never replied at all (or took critical remarks personally - sigh). But then, engagement is great but it also takes time away from writing - I learnt that lesson the hard way.
Chris
ChrisNuttall
Well-known member
It depends how much clout you have.
Martin Padway? Not much, at least at first. Emily? Ditto? Nantucket or Grantville? More, but not enough to be decisive. ISOTed Britain or America? A lot more (if they have the political will to reach out and reshape middle age societies.)
I don't know if you've ever read The Player of Games (Iain M. Banks, great book) but one of the things that annoyed me is that the Culture doesn't have to play games with Azad. They have the power and resources to take over pretty much effortlessly and then improve things right from day one. Why mess around when you don't need to waste time?
Chris
- Location
- NYC (né Falkirk)
- Pronouns
- he/him
That's an encouraging sign that I had not actually considered before. Despite answering a couple calls and issuing one myself.
+1
My vignette participation took a nosedive this year from all to none when I moved and then got used to a new location, including a few instances of what I'd call depressive episodes.
I think this is fine. Really, no one is being let down when anyone else doesn't have an idea for a prompt. No one should be compelled to contribute. I only did one for every month because that was a personal goal I set myself to write more, even then there were a couple months where I had no AH idea so just did science fiction. Only met the goal because I cheated! That's something I did because I set out to do it but no one should feel compelled by the group to participate for the sake of participating.
There's been a few instances this year where I've not been able to actually write a vignette but ideas have been kindled that I do intend to write. I didn't contribute to the mockbuster one, but I still have notes for a story called "Titanic 2". I also didn't do one for two-fisted tales, but still have the idea to do a dieselpunk journey into the NYC Subway by a hardboiled PI.
So, you never know what the prompt might inspire even if nothing gets submitted.
Yeah calling bollocks on that theory, which is all the engagement I think it deserves.
100% agree with this, I am a better writer (still doesn't mean I'm any good!) than I was when this forum began and part of that is practice, part is trial-and-error, but all of those come from the writing opportunities offered here whether on the Magazine (thanks to our editors @AndyC and yourself) or the vignette challenge (similar thanks to @Kato and @Charles EP M. for running these!)
The first person you write for should be yourself, but that audience is also the easiest to ignore.
Thank you both!
Would like to extend similar thanks to Charles and Yokai for providing feedback and even just commenting.
Yep. Have felt this and have seen it from the other end.
Abandoned doing multi-part TLs or even TLIAXs because you really need engagement to commit to a multi-part work. Turns out I was maybe wrong to write about politics because as soon as I tried a professional wrestling AH TLIAX comments started coming in. It's amazing how much more you want to write the next part when you receive even a one word reply to know people aren't just interested but engaged.
Recently took part in a course run by Crystal Lake Publishing. Found the feedback component of that really lacking (and let them know that in my own feedback about the course!) However, there were a couple instances of peer to peer feedback and in one of my swaps I went back with some detailed notes. Partner for that exercise came back a few times for clarification and follow-ups. Editor for our group would distribute their notes as an audio recording that I found worse than useless, and they only did that for the first part of my completed manuscript because "that's around the same length as what everyone else has sent."
Between the forums Gary has mentioned and my experiences on that course think we can say getting feedback is not an issue peculiar to this establishment.
*******
Part of the reason I began giving feedback religiously was in reaction to these infrequent crises of confidence over the matter, specifically the first big one a few years back. I noted then that the biggest voices criticising the forum as a whole were receiving more feedback on their work than I was on mine. I mentioned this specifically during that discussion. In the interests of full disclosure, I also noted that the harshest critics of this never actually made any effort to provide feedback - they only wanted to receive it. Indeed, that first crisis of confidence and proclamations of doom were made by someone on their way out as a parting shot not telling the full story but I digress. Back to the main point, if you feel that feedback here is lacking it is within your power to change it by creating a culture of feedback.
Now, you might say that my period of giving feedback on all vignette entries I've already proven myself wrong since during that period if there was any entry without comment it was likely to be mine. However, I realised that I was actually getting something out of providing feedback to others that I wouldn't otherwise. I was reading things as a reader. It made me think about these pieces from a readers perspective, and allowed me to turn that lens on my own works. Also, as mentioned, @Charles EP M. and @Yokai Man were also contributing to a culture of feedback no matter what the length. You might think saying you liked a piece (as opposed to just liking it) isn't enough, but it's encouragement.
Feedback in its most basic form isn't especially difficult. At the very least I always tried to give every vignette entry a shit sandwich: I point out something I like, I point out something that could be worked on, and I point out something else I like. Is this in-depth review, feedback, editing? Of course not, but it's encouragement and it does make you consider where the story/your writing in general could maybe be improved. If you think that doesn't count as feedback and you'd expect far more I'm afraid I can't help you. We're all volunteers here, and spend our time here because that's what we choose.
This brings me round to another thing, that I've been reconsidering my active participation on this forum as of late. Active participation, I'd still intend to meet any commitments I've made re: works be they writing or editing. After that... I don't know. For a long time I've been thinking about wanting to broaden my writing horizons out of alternate history and into wider genre fiction (there's no such thing as non-genre fiction, as @OwenM has recently pointed out) like horror, science fiction, thrillers, fantasy et al.
In another reactionary move, I've been making more of an effort to comment on articles that get posted to the magazine. That's because I wanted to see a change and had the power to encourage that change through actions. That change was I did not want articles posted to get little to no engagement except when they're stirring the pot. Saying that, had no real issue with the article itself despite not thinking much of its author (same person who triggered the first feedback crisis, as it happens). As I read the replies and they strayed further and further from the point and became more and more doomerist and almost ashamed or saying people should be ashamed I began to wonder something. Do people actually come here to enjoy themselves? Whether by reading, writing or reacting? There's a pervasive feeling in many fan groups that's almost akin to Calvinistic views on original sin, but it was really coming to the fore in that thread.
I enjoy it here. Of course, I don't get on with everyone or enjoy every thread but that's the nature of social media (and life in general, if we're being completely honest) but there's a tremendous feature for that. Enjoy it I do, regardless of those few. I enjoy interacting on shared interests here. I enjoy reading works published here. I enjoy writing works to publish here. I've begun wondering if this is maybe a minority viewpoint. Maybe it comes back to acknowledging a problem you have no intention of helping to fix, as with feedback. The original sin of alternate history, many would sooner accept the concept of total depravity than acknowledge it and change it.
This has been a tangent (whilst complaining about something straying from the point too!) It is one with parallels however to the question of writing here. Why would anyone be willing to make a place better when the voices that are always heard are those that will cite the problems but make no effort towards being the change they want to see?
If anyone does want to be an agent of change, then I'm all here for it and will gladly make the same effort. I'll be honest, knowing that the efforts at feedback were seen has meant a lot to me. I'm feeling more positive about this place than I have in over a month. It comes at the right time too because I'm ready to hunker down for the dark evenings and get writing more. With that little encouragement, I'll keep commenting on most articles; I'll resume providing feedback on each vignette; I'll try to contribute to each vignette challenge again.
I'll even go a little bit further to direct others towards works be they in the vignette challenge, ongoing works, or just a one shot. I'd be ready to compile a digest of pieces posted during any given week. Why? Because pieces can be missed, especially when they're outside of something like the vignette challenge. I think we all get a lot of notifications on here, and I know that there's been threads I don't frequent every day where I can miss an update and then miss a week or so of conversation. Same can hold true of actual content - every month or so I keep reminding myself to go back and read @varyar's Dark Tower fic since I enjoyed it but fell away from it at some point during my move. I'd be willing to run that, perhaps one of our mods would be willing to pin it somewhere (I'd suggest the main writing forum). However, I'm not infallible (far from it), so there would be the need for authors to let me know about works they publish during the week via DM. I'd update the digest each week, I'd cross-post it in the main pub thread, complete with links to the latest updates.
That's a suggestion for one way to direct traffic to actual content, but engagement still counts for a lot. So I'd encourage people reading to write a reply, because as mentioned earlier you'd be surprised how a brief word of encouragement could go.
Another suggestion I'd make, and this one is for purely selfish reasons, is to make the AH component of the vignette challenge optional. Why? After all, this is an alternate history forum. I think you might get more entries. I can think of plenty of entries that were good but the AH component was shoe-horned in or outright non-existent. Since we're no in the era of open calls for anthologies I feel the part of the vignette challenge to provide content for those is superfluous. I'll reiterate: I'm suggesting this for selfish reasons because I know I'd write more with a completely open challenge.
That's what I think of the current situation, that's where I'm at personally with this place, and those are a few suggestions I'd be willing to personally act upon to improve things.
*******
tl;dr - you want change, you make it; and I'll be there to help if you do.
Because the Culture and Azad are not the only actors in the setting; and while they can gather the resources to play games with Azad, the resources to invade and occupy would be a higher demand.
I do feel I should be commenting a bit more on articles than I do with some, as I like the variety of them but feel with a bunch 'well I don't know much about that and can only say Grunt! Me Like Thing!' - but I know even a few words is something I like hearing when I've written one, so why wouldn't others?
napoleon IV
Sheer Animal Cunning of the Groundhog
- Location
- Washington, Douglass Commonwealth
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- he/him
Part of the problem is the like feature. As a reader I feel like if the only thing I have to say is "Good job on that article" I can just hit the like button, that communicates pretty much everything I was going to say. But obviously from the writer's perspective seeing a bunch of likes doesn't have the same feeling as getting a bunch of comments, even if those comments are just "Good article mate."
- Pronouns
- he/him
Yeah, but the likes go to me, while the comments go to the undeserving author, so the former are clearly superior.
- Location
- Visiting BWBs.
A nice thoughtful piece, although I would raise a note of caution over this.
It may possibly be misleading to assume that feedback seen on the forum is all the feedback that there is. I know that, for reasons I find hard to verbalise, generally give feedback by PM (or sometimes e-mail, zoom, or - on one occasion - face-face). Generally by private means, which the outside observer. The consequence of this is that all I know with any confidence about the amount of feedback received is the amount of feedback I personally get. Sometimes by PM, sometimes in the comments. I do know that I can only guess at the amount of feedback other people get. I certainly wouldn't be presumptuous in saying how much feedback other people give. For all I know, there could be a highly active discussion conducted outside of the threads in the forum.
Why do I do comments by PM? I could say that the author is creating something that is intended for public consumption, and therefore it is right and proper to do so in a public forum. However, a critic is providing feedback to an individual, and that perhaps better handled in a private manner, because it is not intended for public consumption. That, however, would be post-hoc reasoning. I simply feel more comfortable providing feedback by PM, and I can't give a coherent reason why that should be the case.
I should also note that, as my contributions to writing fell away, my commenting (and reading) also fell away. Which is my loss, but there are, I am reliably informed, only 25 hours in a day.
Question for those who know more about the Caucasus than I do, since it's been in the news: How viable is a Dagestan that manages to become and stay independent and internationally recognized?
(Closest I can think is it somehow becoming an SSR and thus becoming independent by default in 1991...)
(Closest I can think is it somehow becoming an SSR and thus becoming independent by default in 1991...)
- Location
- Arlington, Virginia
Related to recent conversation - what are some good vignettes from this site's challenge? I joined relatively recently and as such there is much I haven't read.
- Location
- Arlington, Virginia
I racked my brain for a while about how to make an AH version of this meme, and then this came to me.
I never tire of saying that in an AH where the Avro Arrow actually entered service, it would have never fired a shot in anger (and with good reason) and would almost certainly be viewed later on as an expensive white elephant.
Off the top of my head, The King's Birthday was quite good https://forum.sealionpress.co.uk/index.php?threads/vc29-birthday-the-kings-birthday.2986/
- Location
- Arlington, Virginia
- Pronouns
- he/him
Justice for Bearfish which did the same thing first and better and while wearing heals.
It's really weird Gailey at Tor and O'Brien at SLP had the same AH idea about the same obscure not far apart and without one knowing about the other. (So I assume, we'll see if Gailey does Spy Wilson)
Reminds me of how in a thriller I'm reading now, one of the main characters is a daughter of power cocooned in a Swiss boarding school with a ton of bodyguards. And I smiled knowing that I used the same concept.
I'm now reading Bearfish and got to the Seminole's history with hippos. Ezekeil Cousins is a bro.
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