• Hi Guest!

    The costs of running this forum are covered by Sea Lion Press. If you'd like to help support the company and the forum, visit patreon.com/sealionpress

WI: Immediate Effects of Soviet Europe After WW2?

Joshuapooleanox

electoral asbestos
Location
Newcastle, innit
Pronouns
they/them, she/her
I can see the appeal of using a failed D-Day as the PoD; the Germans are already well on the back foot, the Red Army has completed its transformation into a hardened steamroller and Communist resistance movements are at their strongest and most popular across Europe. Plus it's a well known event in the war and less abstract than, say, AGC being destroyed in the Battle of Moscow. I think it's doable as well but with the toll the war will already have taken on the Soviets ITTL they would have to rely on the support of resistance movements much more to spread Communism throughout Europe and subsequently maintain it.

The Soviets could barely manage to feed Eastern Europe IOTL whilst still undergoing a great deal of suffering themselves, a Communist regime in France would be expected to help carry the burden of European reconstruction rather than simply becoming another satellite. In the aftermath you wouldn't so much have a Soviet-dominated Europe as a Europe which was broadly Soviet aligned but with some much more assertive and powerful actors in this expanded Warsaw pact. Some might not be so keen on Moscow remaining the spiritual centre of international Communism in such a scenario.
But would the Soviets be willing to let that happen? They tended to react rather aggressively to different styles of Communism or reforms to the systems they had in place as we saw with Tito as well as the unrest events within the Warsaw pact. The question would be whether they'd be willing to kill their own regime for the sake of ideological purity.
 

Time Enough

"Enthusiastic Cis Male Partner"
Pronouns
He/Him
Some might not be so keen on Moscow remaining the spiritual centre of international Communism in such a scenario.
Idea; A Soviet aligned Europe leading to Western Europe becoming essentially Titoist.
But would the Soviets be willing to let that happen? They tended to react rather aggressively to different styles of Communism or reforms to the systems they had in place as we saw with Tito as well as the unrest events within the Warsaw pact. The question would be whether they'd be willing to kill their own regime for the sake of ideological purity.
Rolling Tanks into Paris or Rome is a much bigger task than per say Berlin or Budapest.
 

Time Enough

"Enthusiastic Cis Male Partner"
Pronouns
He/Him
Why?
If they are already there.
I was basing my response upon @The Red point that a Soviet Western Europe would probably see France expected to shoulder the burden due to the Soviet Union having trouble feeding themselves never mind Europe.

So if in per say 1948, France/Italy decides to go Tito, I doubt the Soviet Union would be driving tanks into Paris due to the fact that the effort and monetary cost would be substantially more than Budapest or Berlin. Hungry was surrounded by fellow Pact nations whilst France would probably have a Franco Spain and a Independent Britain to contend with too.
 

The Red

Well-known member
Published by SLP
But would the Soviets be willing to let that happen? They tended to react rather aggressively to different styles of Communism or reforms to the systems they had in place as we saw with Tito as well as the unrest events within the Warsaw pact. The question would be whether they'd be willing to kill their own regime for the sake of ideological purity.
To a certain extent they'd have to, it's not coincidental that the two Communist countries which had largely liberated themselves during the war where also the most independent in the aftermath. In Albania and Yugsolavia you had regimes which were largely loyal to Moscow in principle but had their own ideas about running a country and a recognition of the peculiarity of their situation. Tito at this juncture already found Stalin patronising but he was an ideological zealot. When your comrades have established themselves organically it's harder to impose on them, particularly ITTL where the onus will be on these new organic regimes to help shoulder the burden of rebuilding Europe.

If Rol-Tanguy calls up Stalin having been asked to come up with solutions and tells him that they're going to maintain the convertibility of the Franc to ensure the easy import of foodstuffs into Western Europe there's a good chance it'll be shrugged off as unavoidable at this juncture. The alternative is let Western Europe starve and in doing so incur a situation in which local regimes lose any support. To shore these regimes up, or purifying those which decide to break with Moscow, would mean having to occupy them. This means, at best, the Red Army can never demobilise and thus the Soviet Union can never recover. Or just Finlandise the whole area and in doing so end up exactly where you where but with less trustworthy partners.
 

Joshuapooleanox

electoral asbestos
Location
Newcastle, innit
Pronouns
they/them, she/her
To a certain extent they'd have to, it's not coincidental that the two Communist countries which had largely liberated themselves during the war where also the most independent in the aftermath. In Albania and Yugsolavia you had regimes which were largely loyal to Moscow in principle but had their own ideas about running a country and a recognition of the peculiarity of their situation. Tito at this juncture already found Stalin patronising but he was an ideological zealot. When your comrades have established themselves organically it's harder to impose on them, particularly ITTL where the onus will be on these new organic regimes to help shoulder the burden of rebuilding Europe.
Actually, this brings up a good point. By the time the Soviets had effectively conquered all of Germany, France could possibly liberate itself. Not sure on that, someone with more knowledge on the French resistance may need to correct me, but that might lead to the Maquis or other groups successfully breaking off from the now cut off and broken German army.
 

The Red

Well-known member
Published by SLP
So you could have a Europe-only version of the Sino-Soviet split with France (or someone) as the other big communist nation? This seems a handy situation for a US-backed Britain ("Only Eden could go to Paris")
There's at least a vignette in that. I remember in The Sorrow and the Pity Eden recalling how he was flying over the French countryside in May 1940 and thinking to himself that he might never see it again, might be something to use.
 

RyanF

Pub Reconquista Ongoing
Patreon supporter
Published by SLP
Location
Falkirk
Pronouns
he/him
There's at least a vignette in that. I remember in The Sorrow and the Pity Eden recalling how he was flying over the French countryside in May 1940 and thinking to himself that he might never see it again, might be something to use.
"There had to be a better way to be a Trojan horse in Europe for the Americans than this."
 
Top