Lists of Heads of Government and Heads of State

[Nyvis]

It’s incredibly unlikely to happen, probably because in this situation the Liberal Democrat’s and ‘Rebellion’ would become the Major party of opposition. I doubt this would ever happen though, unless we get like a Third World War...

I think we really overestimate our current world order's stability. You don't need a world war, just a massive economic crisis, which I'm quite convinced we're close to. And Starmer has already made calls to national unity, despite the current government being what it is so I wouldn't rule it out if the situation is dire enough.

I think the main reason why this won't happen is the large Tory majority and the fact that they tend to always stick together as a party when push comes to shove, especially with 2019 purging most of the dissidents and giving enough of a safety margin to ignore any new ones.

But I could see a canny Tory government taking advantage of Starmer's desire to appear stately and responsible by taking in Labour in a national union government and ensuring they fall with them rather than profit from the crisis being solely handled by the Tories.

 

[Mumby]

theres a trend over on the other place thats sorta that trend we had a while ago - this is less based on my own personal politics, and more based on what i felt would happen at each presidential election i can remember

2001-2005: George W. Bush (Republican) [1]
2000 (with Dick Cheney) def. Al Gore (Democratic)
2005-2008: John Kerry (Democratic) [2]
2004 (with John Edwards) def. George W. Bush (Republican)
2008-2013: Barack Obama (Democratic) [3]
2008 (with Joe Biden) def. John McCain (Republican)
2013-2017: Joe Biden (Democratic) [4]
2012 (HUNG); Barack Obama / Joe Biden (Democratic), Sarah Palin / Rick Santorum (Republican), Jesse Ventura / Buddy Roemer (Independent)
2017-2017: Evan McMullin (Independent) [5]
2016 (with Michael Flynn) def. Donald Trump (Republican), Joe Biden (Democratic), Bernie Sanders (Independent)
2017-2021: Evan McMullin (Democratic)
2021-0000: Michael Flynn (Republican) [6]
2020 (with Louie Gohmert) def. Evan McMullin (Democratic), Jesse Ventura (Green)

[1] Doylist: i had no idea who these people were, but i do remember a man dressing as a cowboy on newsround

[2] Doylist: I was convinced that John Kerry would win, the Iraq War was just too nasty, Bush was so obviously an imbecile, there's no way anyone would vote for him?
Watsonian: In the aftermath of the worsening charnel house of the Middle East, it came as no surprise when Kerry triumphed over the moribund Republican campaign.

[3] Doylist: I was smitten with Obama the moment he appeared on TV screens.
Watsonian: Kerry's Presidency proved less than what people expected - the Middle East conflict dragged out, and then the financial crash struck in 2007. It seemed likely the Democrats would lose re-election, so the prospects of a primary challenger appeared plausible. Obama ultimately triumphed, and upon his election, Kerry organised to have the President-elect be made Speaker of the House in order to expedite his accession.

[4] Doylist: I was in my first year at university, and was convinced that a third party would get a big chunk of the vote and complicate matters. i also was getting into parks and rec, and my disenchantment with obama was joined with a sort of celebrity fascination with biden.
Watsonian: A hung electoral college led to Biden's accession to the Presidency. Obama conceded his claim in order to not complicate his successor's term.

[5] Doylist: I thought both Trump and Clinton were disastrous, and that McMullin stood a real chance of winning at least Utah - and I grasped onto straws of an electoral college rebellion or Congress locking behind a centrist.
Watsonian: Between an incoherent hard-right populist and a centrist who seemed the apotheosis of everything people had grown tired of in the Democrats since 2005, McMullin managed to worm his way through a series of constitutional hoops. Things were more smooth for his Vice President who shot into power with the backing of a Republican Congress with little to convince them to vote for a Democrat instead.

[6] Doylist: Instinct says Biden will win, but I can't help feeling that Trump has more motivated voters and might still pull the cat out of the bag.
Watsonian: The 'corrupt bargain' of 2016 was seized upon by Vice President Flynn, and my an emergent conspiratorial, quasi-religious movement. McMullin won the Democratic nomination, signalling the party's transformation since its election 2004 on a platform of peace. With a strong left-wing movement stealing the wind from the Democratic campaign, the Republicans won an outright electoral majority; the first since 2008.

 

[Yokai Man]

Great list Mumby,great concept for a list as well.

 

[Charles EP M.]

I preferred Fatherland.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1289921418109440002

2019-2020: Boris Johnson (Conservative)

Oct 2020 - May 2021: Jeremy Hunt (emergency coalition)

2021 - 2026: Keir Starmer (Labour-Liberal Democrat coalition)
def: Jeremy Hunt (Conservative), Jeremy Corbyn (True Labour), Nicola Sturgeon/Ian Blackford (SNP), Nigel Farage (National Reform)

Nobody wanted a coalition in October but with the NHS on the brink, unemployment skyrocketing, and the world in greater chaos, there was little choice. "The Christmas Miracle" of the Oxford vaccine and a vast mass of state planning saved the country from further disaster, but by the spring it was clear the government had no reason to stay together anymore and that it was unclear anyone had a mandate. An election was necessary.

Labour was teteering over the loss of over a dozen MPs and many PLP and council members to "True Labour", but it had the advantage over the Tories: they'd lost twice as many MPs and far more grassroots members to Farage's new National Reform party, and on top of that were facing the blame for the virus and shattered economy. Added to that, the "Red Wall" seats were wide open.

It was not enough for a majority - but the Liberal Democrats were on the rise, bolstered by their involvement in the emergency coalition, the centre-right departing the Tories, and successful local campaigning. The coalition lumbered its way through five years of economic doldrums and green-policy keynesian attempts to get the country back up. It also, finally, admitted it needed to shut down Commons for renovation, also used as a plan to carry out some reform on Lords.

Two great changes came as a result: the first was a referendum for voting reform, one now backed by enough parties to narrowly pass, and the second was a Scottish independence referendum (the price for SNP votes to get the renovation bill through) that saw the Kingdom of Scotland seperate by 2026. The third great chance was the steady arrival of what ended up being half a million Hong Kongers, greatly changing the shape of cities & large towns, forcing more housing development, and (as many were given citizenship) being a big source of new voters to chase after in 2026.


2026 - 2029: Keir Starmer (Labour-Liberal Democrat-True Labour coalition)
2029 - 2031: Keir Starmer (Labour-Liberal Democrat-Green coalition)

Or "Hell", as various party insiders called it. The first post-reform coalition was not fun for anyone and would collapse into a whole new one, because the alternative was... well, there wasn't one because National Reform had become the party that said 'are those Hong Kongers properly integrating?' and that made them toxic for any coalition partner. While this government(s) has managed to begrudgingly pass a lot of policies, Labour is joining the Tories in running on a referendum to return to FPTP.

 

[Time Enough]

So I recently found out Dizzy Gillespie ran for President in 64' and considered doing it again for 72' so ummm this happened...

How Dizzy Changed America...
1963-1965: Stuart Symington (Democratic)
1965-1969: William Scranton (Republican)
1964 (With Barry Goldwater) def: Stuart Symington (Democratic), George Wallace (Dixiecrat), Dizzy Gillespie (Independent)
1969: Robert F. Kennedy (Democratic)
1968 (With Sam Yorty) def: William Scranton (Republican), George Wallace (American Independents), Dizzy Gillespie (Freedom)
1969-1973: Sam Yorty (Democratic)
1973-: Dizzy Gillespe (Freedom)
1972 (With George McGovern) def: Sam Yorty (Democratic), Barry Goldwater (Republican), George Wallace (American Independents), Tom McCall (Third Force)
1976 (With George McGovern) def: John Connally (Democratic), Richard Nixon (Republican), George Wallace (American Independents), Tom McCall (Third Force)

The implosions of the Democrats and Republicans in the aftermath of Scranton's defeat and Kennedy's death signalled the idea of the tradtional two parties of American politics, with George Wallace hoovering up the Southern states, Tom McCall absorbing the angry Rockerfellar Republicans and Moderate Republicans and some Moderate Democrats into his Third Force party and generally the other two trying to prove how more Conservative they could be than the other it was time for a New Force to appear in American politics. A combination of the forces of Labor, Civil Rights, Social Democrats and Liberals would work together to get Dizzy Gillespe, former Jazz bandleader and 1964 Independent candidate into the White House helped by a hideously divided field.

Now with Dizzy having completed his two terms with record high levels of popularity people look at who will be competing with Freedom's Presidential Candidate Quincy Jones, will it be the Democratic-Republican candidate Ronald Reagan, American Independents new candidate Bob Richards or the new leader of the Third Force Frank Zappa...

 

[Nyvis]

Or "Hell", as various party insiders called it. The first post-reform coalition was not fun for anyone and would collapse into a whole new one, because the alternative was... well, there wasn't one because National Reform had become the party that said 'are those Hong Kongers properly integrating?' and that made them toxic for any coalition partner. While this government(s) has managed to begrudgingly pass a lot of policies, Labour is joining the Tories in running on a referendum to return to FPTP.

Sounds like normal coalitions in a more open political system. Though I can imagine some pretty tense government moments in a coalition including both labour and true labour, I imagine Starmer's labour and the libdems don't have too many issues working together, especially with voter reforms passed and the greens shouldn't be that much of a problem.

On the other hand I would expect agreeing to a Scottish referendum being very controversial?

 

[Charles EP M.]

On the other hand I would expect agreeing to a Scottish referendum being very controversial?

It would be but after years to get used to the idea (it'd have been talked about for most of a decade by that point), it isn't as damaging as it once was (and probably Farage's chums are yelling "yeah Scotland SHOULD have a vote on remaining or leaving, EH READERS???" to make a point)

 

[Japhy]

So I recently found out Dizzy Gillespie ran for President in 64' and considered doing it again for 72' so ummm this happened...

How Dizzy Changed America...
1963-1965: Stuart Symington (Democratic)
1965-1969: William Scranton (Republican)
1964 (With Barry Goldwater) def: Stuart Symington (Democratic), George Wallace (Dixiecrat), Dizzy Gillespie (Independent)
1969: Robert F. Kennedy (Democratic)
1968 (With Sam Yorty) def: William Scranton (Republican), George Wallace (American Independents), Dizzy Gillespie (Freedom)
1969-1973: Sam Yorty (Democratic)
1973-: Dizzy Gillespe (Freedom)
1972 (With George McGovern) def: Sam Yorty (Democratic), Barry Goldwater (Republican), George Wallace (American Independents), Tom McCall (Third Force)
1976 (With George McGovern) def: John Connally (Democratic), Richard Nixon (Republican), George Wallace (American Independents), Tom McCall (Third Force)

The implosions of the Democrats and Republicans in the aftermath of Scranton's defeat and Kennedy's death signalled the idea of the tradtional two parties of American politics, with George Wallace hoovering up the Southern states, Tom McCall absorbing the angry Rockerfellar Republicans and Moderate Republicans and some Moderate Democrats into his Third Force party and generally the other two trying to prove how more Conservative they could be than the other it was time for a New Force to appear in American politics. A combination of the forces of Labor, Civil Rights, Social Democrats and Liberals would work together to get Dizzy Gillespe, former Jazz bandleader and 1964 Independent candidate into the White House helped by a hideously divided field.

Now with Dizzy having completed his two terms with record high levels of popularity people look at who will be competing with Freedom's Presidential Candidate Quincy Jones, will it be the Democratic-Republican candidate Ronald Reagan, American Independents new candidate Bob Richards or the new leader of the Third Force Frank Zappa...

Treating the run seriously ruins the joke.

 

[Thande]

In the 1910s the Civil War was in living memory.

OK, I assume you were talking about a specific scenario/time period using "National Union" then, I meant more generically.

Though it's always worth being reminded of that fact, because it's one of those things that's always reflexively surprising to the way most people view history.

 

[Time Enough]

A list inspired by the discussion of a LRC collapse in 1900 and the rundown I did earlier. @Nyvis this make sense in your opinion?

Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom:
1900-1902: Marquess of Salisbury (Conservative)
1900 (Majority) def: Henry Campbell Bannerman (Liberal), Keir Hardie (Independent Labour Party), John Redmond (Irish Parliamentary Party)
1902-1906: Arthur Balfour (Conservative)
1906-1910: Henry Campbell Bannerman (Liberal)
1906 (Majority) def: Arthur Balfour (Conservative), Keir Hardie (ILP), Arthur Richardson (Liberal-Labour), John Redmond (IPP)
1910-1915: H.H.Asquith (Liberal)
1910 (Majority) def: Arthur Balfour (Conservative), Fred Jowett (ILP-SDF Alliance), Arthur Richardson (Liberal-Labour), John Redmond (IPP), William O'Brien (All for Ireland)
1915-1918: David Lloyd George (Liberal leading War Coalition)
1918-1921: Bonar Law (Conservative)
1918 (Majority) def: David Lloyd George (Liberal), George Lansbury (ILP), Ramsay MacDonald (Liberal-Labour), Samuel Perry (Cooperative Party), Henry Hyndman (National Socialist Party), David Robb Campbell (Ulster Labour Party), Joseph Devlin (Irish Nationalist Party), Various Irish Nationalists
1921-1924: Sir William Joynson-Hicks (Conservative)
1921 (Majority) def: Christopher Addison (Liberal), George Lansbury (ILP), Ramsay MacDonald (Liberal-Labour), Samuel Perry (Cooperative Party), Henry Hyndman (National Socialist Party), David Robb Campbell (Ulster Labour Party), Joseph Devlin (Irish Nationalist Party), Micheal Collins (Sinn Fein)
1924: General Strike, Collapse of Joynson-Hicks Goverment
1924-1930: David Lloyd George (Liberal)
1924 (Majority) def: Sir William Joynson-Hicks (Conservative), Clement Attlee (ILP), Ramsay MacDonald (Liberal-Labour), Samuel Perry (Cooperative Party), Tom Kennedy (National Socialist Party), David Robb Campbell (Ulster Labour Party), Joseph Devlin (Irish Nationalist Party), Lintorn Rotha Orman (Action)
1928 (Coalition with Cooperative Party) def: Eric Geddes (Conservative), Clement Attlee (ILP), George Alfred Spencer (Liberal-Labour), Alfred Barnes (Cooperative Party), Oswald Mosley (National Socialist Party), Jack Bettie (Ulster Labour Party), Joseph Devlin (Irish Nationalist Party), Lintorn Rotha Orman (Action)
1930-1932: William Wedgewood Benn (Liberal)
1932-1935: Arthur Steel-Maitland (Conservative)
1932 (Majority) def: William Wedgewood Benn (Liberal), Edgar Lansbury (ILP), Alfred Barnes-G.D.H Cole (Cooperative Party), Oswald Mosley (National Socialist Party), Jack Bettie (Ulster Labour Party), Joseph Devlin (Irish Nationalist Party), Lintorn Rotha Orman (Action), Wyndham Lewis (Futurist), Hugh MacDiarmid (Scottish Socialist Party), Sylvia Pankhurst (Socialist Party of Great Britian)
1935-1937: Neville Chamberlain (Conservative)
1937-1940: Malcolm MacDonald (Liberal)
1937 (Majority) def: Neville Chamberlain (Conservative), Clement Attlee (ILP), Alfred Barnes-A.V.Alexander (Cooperative Party), Oswald Mosley (National Socialist Party), Jack Bettie (Ulster Labour Party), Micheal Collins (Sinn Féin-Irish Nationalist), William Joyce (Action), Wyndham Lewis (Futurist), Hugh MacDiarmid (Scottish Socialist Party), Sylvia Pankhurst (Socialist Party of Great Britian)
1940-1945: Malcolm MacDonald (Liberal leading War Coalition)
1945-1947: Malcolm MacDonald (Liberal)
1945 (Coalition with ILP) def: Harold Macmillan-Oswald Mosley (New Democratic), Ellen Wilkinson (ILP), Jack Bettie (Ulster Labour Party), Micheal Collins (Sinn Féin), John Beckett (Social Credit), Eric Linklater (Scottish Social Democratic Party), Geoffrey Trease-Ted Grant (Socialist Party of Great Britian)
1947-: Harold Macmillan (New Democratic)
1947 (Majority) def: Malcolm MacDonald (Liberal), Nye Bevan (ILP), Jack Bettie (Ulster Labour Party), Micheal Collins (Sinn Féin), John Beckett (Social Credit), Eric Linklater (Scottish Social Democratic Party), Geoffrey Trease-Tom Driberg (Socialist Party of Great Britian), Ted Grant (Socialist Labour)
1951 (Majority) def: Malcolm MacDonald (Liberal), Nye Bevan (ILP), Micheal Collins (Sinn Féin), John Beckett (Social Credit), Eric Linklater (Scottish Social Democratic Party), Geoffrey Trease-Konni Zilliacus (Socialist Party of Great Britian), Ted Grant (Socialist Labour)

1955 Election:
In Government:
Harold Macmillan (New Democratic)

Opposition:
Evan Durbin (Liberal)
Nye Bevan (ILP)
John Beckett (Social Credit)
Eric Linklater (SSDP)
Konni Zilliacus-Jill Craigie (SPGB)
Ted Grant (Socialist Labour)

Abstaining:
Sean MacBride (Sinn Féin)

Be Careful For What You Wish For..: Prime Ministers of Great Britian and Northern Ireland:
...
1990-1998: Micheal Heseltine (New Democratic)
1990 (Coalition with Reform) def: Tony Benn (Liberal), Vanessa Redgrave (British Socialist Party), John Reid (Workers), David Owen (Reform), Robert Kilroy Silk (Social Credit), Margo MacDonald (Scottish CommonWealth Party), Proinsias De Rossa (Sinn Féin)
1992 Referendum on Proportional Representation: For 60%, Against 40%
1994 (Coalition with Reform & Social Credit) def: Tony Benn (Liberal), Vanessa Redgrave (BSP), George Galloway (Workers), David Owen (Reform), Robert Kilroy Silk (Social Credit), Roseanna Cunningham (SCWP), Proinsias De Rossa (Sinn Féin)
1998-2002: John Prescott (New Democratic)
1998 (Coalition with Reform) def: Hilary Benn (Liberal), Tony Banks (BSP), George Galloway (Workers), David Owen (Reform), Ed Balls (Social Democrats), Nigel Farage (Social Credit), Roseanna Cunningham (SCWP), Proinsias De Rossa (Sinn Féin)
2002-2010: Hilary Benn (Liberal)
2002 (Coalition with British Socialist Party) def: John Prescott (New Democratic), Dawn Primarolo (BSP), George Galloway (Workers), David Owen (Reform), Ed Balls (Social Democrats), John Redwood (Social Credit), Roseanna Cunningham (SCWP), Proinsias De Rossa (Sinn Féin)
2006 (Coalition with Social Democrats) def: Micheal Howard (New Democratic), Dawn Primarolo (BSP), Micheal Gove (Workers), David Owen-Robert Kilroy Silk (New Britian Comittee), Ed Balls (Social Democratic), John Redwood (Social Credit), Richie Venton (SCWP), Pat Rabbitte (Sinn Féin), Chris Packham (Ecology Party)
2010-2012: Tessa Jowell (Liberal)
2010 (Coalition with Social Democrats) def: Micheal Howard (New Democratic), Derek Wall (BSP), Micheal Gove (Workers), Douglas Carswell (New Britian), Dawn Butler (Social Democrats), William Hague (Social Credit), Richie Venton (SCWP), Pat Rabbitte (Sinn Féin), Chris Packham (Ecology Party)
2012: Dawn Butler (Social Democrats)
2012-2016: Barry Sheerman (New Democratic)
2012 (Coalition with Social Credit & New Britain) def: Vince Cable (Liberal), Richard Lindsey (BSP), Jeremy Corbyn (Workers), Jason Zadronzy (New Britian), Dawn Butler (Social Democrats), William Hague (Social Credit), Frances Curran (SCWP), Pauline Tully (Sinn Féin), Chris Packham (Ecology Party), Cat Boyd (Youth Rebellion)
2016-2020: Richard Lindsey (British Socialist Party)
2016 (Coalition with Ecology Party & Youth Rebellion) def: Barry Sheerman (New Democratic), Emily Benn (Liberal), Lee Anderson (Workers), Jason Zadronzy (New Britian), Heidi Alexander (Social Democrats), Andrea Leadsom (Social Credit), Micheal Gove (SCWP), Pauline Tully (Sinn Féin), Gail Bradbrook (Ecology Party), Cat Boyd-Zarah Sultana (Youth Rebellion)
2020: Karen Lee (British Socialist Party)

 

[Japhy]

OK, I assume you were talking about a specific scenario/time period using "National Union" then, I meant more generically.

Though it's always worth being reminded of that fact, because it's one of those things that's always reflexively surprising to the way most people view history.

No but it often comes up in the 1910s and 1920s where again it's in living memory. And even later, then the press would bring up its discredited nature. I don't accept that it would just be ignored in the US.

 

[Mumby]

No but it often comes up in the 1910s and 1920s where again it's in living memory. And even later, then the press would bring up its discredited nature. I don't accept that it would just be ignored in the US.

tbf it didn't stop people in the uk insistently bringing up the prospects of a national government in the 1970s and last year, when the last example of that Did Appeasement.

 

[iupius]

tbf it didn't stop people in the uk insistently bringing up the prospects of a national government in the 1970s and last year, when the last example of that Did Appeasement.

"I have in my hand a piece of paper"

[IT'S JUST THE MALTHOUSE COMPROMISE]

 

[theev]

tbf it didn't stop people in the uk insistently bringing up the prospects of a national government in the 1970s and last year, when the last example of that Did Appeasement.

Yeah, I think we might be giving the average voter a bit too much credit if we think they'll be taking a serious and comprehensive look at the historical implications of political names. Trump basically got away with America First and that was literally Lindbergh's Nazi organization.

 

[Charles EP M.]

And "that was the Nazi thing" was repeatedly pointed out too, to which voters went "ehh" unless they already disliked Trump. So it would probably be the same that "ah remember the LAST national government" would get said by people who don't like the idea of a new one because it has Them I Don't Like in it

 

[OwenM]

Wasn't Churchill-Attlee called a National Government at the time as well?

 

[Elektronaut]

I thought its advocates last year prefered 'national unity government' or the pleasingly authoritarian 'emergency government'.

 

[Thande]

No but it often comes up in the 1910s and 1920s where again it's in living memory. And even later, then the press would bring up its discredited nature. I don't accept that it would just be ignored in the US.

OK, I certainly agree with the first part, I think the second part would depend on the nature of the press at the time and how it's viewed by the wider populace. Regardless, I think you've made your point that it would have to be justified in-timeline rather than being seen as an automatic obvious choice.

Wasn't Churchill-Attlee called a National Government at the time as well?

I've mentioned this before, but back when the coalition formed in 2010, there was a fella on Atlas who combined the post-election polls to compare "National Government" to "Labour". No idea why, because (as this was still the honeymoon period) it made Labour look like it was doing much worse in the polls than it was. Maybe that insular Labour thing where people still regard Ramsay Mac et al as a visceral wound as though it happened last week, and he was going for that comparison?

 

[Stuyvesant]

Governors of the Republic of the State of New York (Third Constitution)

1850-1862: Maarten Van Buren (Locofoco Whig)
1862-1863: John Dix (Locofoco Whig) [Acting]
1863-1886: Horatio Seymour (Bucktail Whig)
1863 def. John Dix (Locofoco Whig), John Bidwell (Radical), J. Gregory Smith (Green Mountain)
1886: Abram Hewitt (Bucktail Whig) [Acting]
1886-1894: Leon Abbett (Radical)
1886 def. William R. Grace (Locofoco Whig), Richard Croker (Bucktail Whig) Ebenezer J. Ormsbee (Green Mountain)
1894-1895: Davis Hanson Waite (Radical) [Acting]
1895-1900: Levi P. Morton (Locofoco Whig)
1895 def. Richard Croker (Bucktail Whig), Edward H. Gillette (The Land), Daniel De Leon (Working Men’s), Josiah Grout (Green Mountain)
1899 Constitutional Referendum:50.013% Yes, 49.987% No

A sequel to my last New York list, showing the breadth of the Second Party System, and then the rural awakening that saw the birth of the Third.

 

[OwenM]

OK, I certainly agree with the first part, I think the second part would depend on the nature of the press at the time and how it's viewed by the wider populace. Regardless, I think you've made your point that it would have to be justified in-timeline rather than being seen as an automatic obvious choice.


I've mentioned this before, but back when the coalition formed in 2010, there was a fella on Atlas who combined the post-election polls to compare "National Government" to "Labour". No idea why, because (as this was still the honeymoon period) it made Labour look like it was doing much worse in the polls than it was. Maybe that insular Labour thing where people still regard Ramsay Mac et al as a visceral wound as though it happened last week, and he was going for that comparison?

As a tangent to this, I just found something on AH.com where you were complaining about (I think) Brown treating the Ministry of All the Talents as something to be emulated and how this was historically illiterate.