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Least favorite alt-history story?

0.42@632

Active member
Concepts like colonized china are discussed but never implemented in a way that shows the chinese perspective.
Also the favorite nonwhite targets for a nuclear war (the middle east and China) are never really portrayed with the sort of empathy and nuance in discussions of said war they deserve (looking at the Footprint of Mussolini in regards to Operation Samson) and neither is the aftermath really dealt with.

Protect and Survive's Ashes of the Dragon actually does cover the Sino-Soviet front of WW3 with enough empathy and connects it to the Japanese invasion before.
 
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MernStahl

Dreams of being the 11 in D11
With regards to Reds, Jello did mention that she had, in hindsight, overestimated the FBU's survivability. She said that if she were to do the timeline again from scratch, world war two would just turn into a massive world revolutionary war, making the entire timeline one of conflict until you get world communism in like the 1960s, at which point the timeline ends.

However she didn't want to do that because:
a) she'd already started her timeline
b) it would probably be a very boring timeline because it would just be a series of military campaigns.
c) it let her explore new ideas in a Cold War setting
 

0.42@632

Active member
With regards to Reds, Jello did mention that she had, in hindsight, overestimated the FBU's survivability. She said that if she were to do the timeline again from scratch, world war two would just turn into a massive world revolutionary war, making the entire timeline one of conflict until you get world communism in like the 1960s, at which point the timeline ends.

However she didn't want to do that because:
a) she'd already started her timeline
b) it would probably be a very boring timeline because it would just be a series of military campaigns.
c) it let her explore new ideas in a Cold War setting
And also because writing the Utopia that comes afterwards would be both hard and have tendency to relapse into "end of history" rhetoric like Mal@ Rising does
 

MernStahl

Dreams of being the 11 in D11
And also because writing the Utopia that comes afterwards would be both hard and have tendency to relapse into "end of history" rhetoric like Mal@ Rising does
She did state she thought it would be impossible to write it because it would be too different from our own world.

Tbh one of my gripes was that the reason for US entry into WW1 wasn't covered with enough detail - the treaty that prompts it is mentioned in the post where the US enters. It's a critical part of the timeline but only barely detailed.
 

0.42@632

Active member
She did state she thought it would be impossible to write it because it would be too different from our own world.

Tbh one of my gripes was that the reason for US entry into WW1 wasn't covered with enough detail - the treaty that prompts it is mentioned in the post where the US enters. It's a critical part of the timeline but only barely detailed.
Also the British Kurdistan and French "Assyria" that appear in the newest version on SV make little to no sense
1627140660378.png

As in *Kurdistan is a separate colony for plot reasons only - it should be merged into Iraq. Also most Assyrians did not live in the area marked Assyriia
1627141236820.png

Also the whole Axis (NeoOttomanist/Islamist) Turkey (and Axis Sweden) shtick makes zero sense. Fascist Brazil makes sense with a red America but the rest dont.

It's literal blackwashing with little to no understanding of why these countries didn't turn fash IOTL.
It's literally wanking the axis
 
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Burton K Wheeler

The G.O.A.T. That Can't Be Got
Location
Tr'ondëk
Also the British Kurdistan and French "Assyria" that appear in the newest version on SV make little to no sense
View attachment 41350

As in *Kurdistan is a separate colony for plot reasons only - it should be merged into Iraq. Also most Assyrians did not live in the area marked Assyriia
View attachment 41351

Also the whole Axis (NeoOttomanist/Islamist) Turkey (and Axis Sweden) shtick makes zero sense. Fascist Brazil makes sense with a red America but the rest dont.

It's literal blackwashing with little to no understanding of why these countries didn't turn fash IOTL.
It's literally wanking the axis
You can't have any sort of Assyrian state or sensible Kurdistan if you support Armenian revanchism, since Greater Armenia includes any place where any Armenians might have lived ever. I'd much rather see rump Ottoman empires in AH with late 19th/early 20th century PODs than more giant ridiculous Armenias and Megali Greeces, just for a change of pace from the usual absurd Wilsonian fantasies.
 

0.42@632

Active member
You can't have any sort of Assyrian state or sensible Kurdistan if you support Armenian revanchism, since Greater Armenia includes any place where any Armenians might have lived ever. I'd much rather see rump Ottoman empires in AH with late 19th/early 20th century PODs than more giant ridiculous Armenias and Megali Greeces, just for a change of pace from the usual absurd Wilsonian fantasies.
The idea of a Armenian-Kurdish-Pontic-Assyrian state with a different Ottoman endgame would be an alternative
 

0.42@632

Active member
Also a US entring the war in 1914 should at least impact Soviet Administrative borders so maybe Koba decides to just draw SSRs based on economics
 

Burton K Wheeler

The G.O.A.T. That Can't Be Got
Location
Tr'ondëk
The idea of a Armenian-Kurdish-Pontic-Assyrian state with a different Ottoman endgame would be an alternative
That's just the Ottoman Empire with extra steps, though, like bizarro Ataturkism. I'm also not really sure how that would happen when the whole point of carving up the Ottoman Empire was to give different European states pieces of the pie.
 

OwenM

The patronising flippancy of youth
Location
Colwyn Bay/Manchester
Pronouns
He/him
With regards to Reds, Jello did mention that she had, in hindsight, overestimated the FBU's survivability. She said that if she were to do the timeline again from scratch, world war two would just turn into a massive world revolutionary war, making the entire timeline one of conflict until you get world communism in like the 1960s, at which point the timeline ends.

However she didn't want to do that because:
a) she'd already started her timeline
b) it would probably be a very boring timeline because it would just be a series of military campaigns.
c) it let her explore new ideas in a Cold War setting
From what I remember the FBU also had significantly more allies in earlier versions, I've never been entirely sure how that intersects.
 

MernStahl

Dreams of being the 11 in D11
From what I remember the FBU also had significantly more allies in earlier versions, I've never been entirely sure how that intersects.
Not sure how much that changed. They actually "gained" allies in the form of the Arab League (who was kinda of in limbo earlier but has more solidly come down in the capitalist sphere as time went on), which itself turns into a sort of confederal setup later on, kind of like the EU I think. I think they lost a bit more of Europe.
 

Persephone

Mishima Themboy
Pronouns
they/them
This isn't related to the current discussion, but if I'm being honest, I've kinda grown tired of excessive criticism or lambasting of alternate history works by the online community. It's somewhat ironic of me to say, considering I'm the first one to call out stuff that's exceedingly stupid and makes no sense, but lately it just feels unnecessary and not conducive to helping people get better at writing most of the time.
 

David Flin

Real people take priority over imaginary people
This isn't related to the current discussion, but if I'm being honest, I've kinda grown tired of excessive criticism or lambasting of alternate history works by the online community. It's somewhat ironic of me to say, considering I'm the first one to call out stuff that's exceedingly stupid and makes no sense, but lately it just feels unnecessary and not conducive to helping people get better at writing most of the time.
I draw two different standards. Stuff that is published professionally, where I am expected to pay to read it gets judged (by me) to a much higher standard than amateur stuff on a fan website, which is roughly what these forums are.

If I make money from a piece, the customer is entitled to express an opinion and if I don't like it, that's just too bad. For example, someone reviewed Six East End Boys as being "zany humour", which puzzles me. If that's what they got from it, well, so be it.

If they expressed that same view when it was in the drafting stage on the Writers' Forum, then my attitude would have been slightly different.
 

0.42@632

Active member
That's just the Ottoman Empire with extra steps, though, like bizarro Ataturkism. I'm also not really sure how that would happen when the whole point of carving up the Ottoman Empire was to give different European states pieces of the pie.
A Pakistan-style "opposition state" whose existence is militarized defense is better than being genocided by the turks (and later arabs)
 

Charles EP M.

Well-known member
Published by SLP
I think it's fair to criticise the Big Boys of online AHs, the really influential ones like Gordon Banks, because they've been an influence on what came later in online & indie AH, or discuss critically the tropes & assumptions done with online AH. The further down you go, not so much.
 

ChrisNuttall

Active member
I draw two different standards. Stuff that is published professionally, where I am expected to pay to read it gets judged (by me) to a much higher standard than amateur stuff on a fan website, which is roughly what these forums are.

If I make money from a piece, the customer is entitled to express an opinion and if I don't like it, that's just too bad. For example, someone reviewed Six East End Boys as being "zany humour", which puzzles me. If that's what they got from it, well, so be it.

If they expressed that same view when it was in the drafting stage on the Writers' Forum, then my attitude would have been slightly different.
I have mixed feelings.

Critical analysis is very useful, although - as the writer - I have the final say. Trolling is pretty much the exact opposite of useful.

Chris
 

David Flin

Real people take priority over imaginary people
I have mixed feelings.

Critical analysis is very useful, although - as the writer - I have the final say. Trolling is pretty much the exact opposite of useful.

Chris
Indeed. On this forum, when I wrote here, I would plead and plead for feedback. What worked, what didn't, anything.

Getting blood from a stone was easy by comparison. Finally, I gave up trying out first drafts here, because as far as I can tell, maybe 2 people read them, and I got sod all in the way of feedback.
 

lerk

Gone fishing
I had a similar experience as well in which barely anyone responded to my TLs, to the point where even just trolling would've been better than that.
 

Burton K Wheeler

The G.O.A.T. That Can't Be Got
Location
Tr'ondëk
Yeah but the thing is that Kurds don't really have good relations with Armenians and Assyrians, and in fact many Kurds live in areas once populated by Armenians and Assyrians, so I don't know how realistic that is.
Drawing borders for ethnic states in Anatolia is a fool's game where the inevitable result of any new partition will be genocide.

A Pakistan-style "opposition state" whose existence is militarized defense is better than being genocided by the turks (and later arabs)
And it would involve Pakistan-scale bloodshed if not more in creating it. In this scenario, Turkey would probably be the militarized Pakistan analogue with an entirely justified fear of genocidal invasion the next time the Armenians decide that another few provinces once belonged to Tigran the Great and the West backs them up. You've just created Ataturkism combined with North Korea. This is my personal least favorite type of AH, the one that just gives us a more bloody and grim version of the world we know.
 
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