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Alternate History General Discussion

ChrisNuttall

Well-known member
I wrote a chapter about my ISOT protagonists breaking out their first aid kit to treat a burn victim and somebody commented to the effect that it would be less future-tech to turn over to the legitimate government authorities to reverse-engineer.
That sounds like an interesting book - link?

Chris
 

SpanishSpy

Well-known member
Published by SLP
I swear, there has to be something in alternate history, maybe something that unlocks a secret compartment in your mind, because my god, some of the most left-leaning, anti-imperialist, generally anti-war folks I know suddenly turn into belligerent nationalists blowing the trumpets of war.

Suddenly, people are talking about setting up puppet states and exploiting the hell out of them with no sense of irony or self-awareness.
There's a fellow in Alternate History Online (which, full disclosure, I moderate) who is a very liberal, progressive Frenchman who will slam America for any number of crimes but dissemble about France doing similar, and yet have the gall to call himself antinationalist.

There was a conversation about if any other European country could have done something like the Holocaust - he vicariously denied the possibility that France could ever do so. I and others brought up the Dreyfus affair, to which he responded that, somehow, said affair demonstrates how France is less antisemitic than other European countries. There may or may not have been bad takes about Vichy too.
 

Ricardolindo

Well-known member
Location
Portugal
There's a fellow in Alternate History Online (which, full disclosure, I moderate) who is a very liberal, progressive Frenchman who will slam America for any number of crimes but dissemble about France doing similar, and yet have the gall to call himself antinationalist.

There was a conversation about if any other European country could have done something like the Holocaust - he vicariously denied the possibility that France could ever do so. I and others brought up the Dreyfus affair, to which he responded that, somehow, said affair demonstrates how France is less antisemitic than other European countries. There may or may not have been bad takes about Vichy too.
While I get what you say, we should remember the whole Dreyfus affair revolved around French society being very divided and actually resulted in secularism. Also, not all Anti-Dreyfusards were anti-Semitic.
 

Walpurgisnacht

Incredibly Busy Trying To Kill Everyone
Location
Banned from the forum
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While I get what you say, we should remember the whole Dreyfus affair revolved around French society being very divided and actually resulted in secularism.
Of course there's no way selectively-applied secularism could possibly be another form of religious discrimination.

Forgive me if I'm not super convinced by one source I can't read and two other sources that make the same blank claim you made without actually naming anyone who was merely concerned with ethics in military trial journalism.
 

Indicus

<insert title here>
Location
Trawno
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he/him
Reading one of the links, it’s a review of one of the other links (a book), and this review states that this claim is unsubstantiated in the book.

048EE032-C0E4-438E-9100-7933DC498F97.jpeg

The other link, a book itself, has this snippet which I do not find convincing at all:

6A820ECA-1E6F-4726-96D6-5D1DE690EC7B.jpeg
 

Ricardolindo

Well-known member
Location
Portugal
Of course there's no way selectively-applied secularism could possibly be another form of religious discrimination.
My point about secularism was that there was enough opposition to Dreyfus's treatment to lead to the introduction of secularism.

Forgive me if I'm not super convinced by one source I can't read and two other sources that make the same blank claim you made without actually naming anyone who was merely concerned with ethics in military trial journalism.

Reading one of the links, it’s a review of one of the other links (a book), and this review states that this claim is unsubstantiated in the book.

View attachment 43650

The other link, a book itself, has this snippet which I do not find convincing at all:

View attachment 43649
I must admit I hesitated in making that remark as it was merely based on that book's statement.
 

Ricardolindo

Well-known member
Location
Portugal
There's a fellow in Alternate History Online (which, full disclosure, I moderate) who is a very liberal, progressive Frenchman who will slam America for any number of crimes but dissemble about France doing similar, and yet have the gall to call himself antinationalist.

There was a conversation about if any other European country could have done something like the Holocaust - he vicariously denied the possibility that France could ever do so. I and others brought up the Dreyfus affair, to which he responded that, somehow, said affair demonstrates how France is less antisemitic than other European countries. There may or may not have been bad takes about Vichy too.
BTW, here is a thread at the other place about France or Russia carrying out an Holocaust equivalent, https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/ahc-france-russia-perpetrate-the-holocaust.471889/.
 

Charles EP M.

Well-known member
Published by SLP
I swear, there has to be something in alternate history, maybe something that unlocks a secret compartment in your mind, because my god, some of the most left-leaning, anti-imperialist, generally anti-war folks I know suddenly turn into belligerent nationalists blowing the trumpets of war.

Suddenly, people are talking about setting up puppet states and exploiting the hell out of them with no sense of irony or self-awareness.
Do you mean writing about big wars & imperial, or going "YEAH!" about it in AH? The former shouldn't be too surprising, a story about war breaking out is more immediately exciting than one where the war doesn't happen and the tanks all go home
 

Burton K Wheeler

The G.O.A.T. That Can't Be Got
Location
Tr'ondëk
It is probably way too 'internet AH' but I think it would be interesting to address time travel failures as lost/secret histories. Uptime genealogist tries to look into the mysterious WW2 disappearance of his grandfather, ends up finding passages from Edda fragments written by downtimer contemporaries that make him convinced his grandfather was a time traveler.
That's Bring the Jubilee
 

Wolfram

The possum is not OK. Neither are we.
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the Velvet Coffin, Texas
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Not sure what thread I should put this in, but I think this is probably the best option:

If anybody would like me to look for any physical documents or information in Austin (e.g. the LBJ Presidential Library, the papers at the Ransom or Briscoe Center, anything public in the Texas Archives), let me know and I’m happy to help.
 

Coiler

Connoisseur of the Miscellaneous
Published by SLP
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Nu Yawk
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He/Him
Which pop culture Paramount/Fox horror crossover would A: Be more likely, and/or B: Work better? Friday the 13th Jason vs. Alien , or Jason vs. Predator?

(Probably the latter IMO, since Predators are so much more versatile than xenomorphs)
 

Christian

Well-known member
It seems like, in alternate history, there’s this assumption that, if you just treat a people you just subjugated through conquest with kindness, respect their beliefs and customs, and ”modernize” them, then they’ll immediately be 100% on board with being conquered.

Yes, as if there isn’t many examples of that in history not going the way people thought.
 

Gary Oswald

It was Vampire Unions that got us Vampire Weekend
Sea Lion Press staff
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Something odd about alternate history is that it seems really pro-monarchist.
In Alternate History, there tends to be a habit of people liking a system or country so much that they write a story where it perpetuates itself until modern day and possibly forever.
One thing I’ve noticed is that, in alternate history he writers tend to ignore the dark side of a historical figure of just make him not do those bad things for whatever reason. It feels like they want to stan for a character without seeming like an apologist for said figure if he didn’t do anything nearly as evil as he historically did.
In alternate history, the question of competency never seems to be raised. People just assume a good amount of it from people who, historically, bumbled quite a lot on many things.
I swear, there has to be something in alternate history, maybe something that unlocks a secret compartment in your mind, because my god, some of the most left-leaning, anti-imperialist, generally anti-war folks I know suddenly turn into belligerent nationalists blowing the trumpets of war.
It seems like, in alternate history, there’s this assumption that, if you just treat a people you just subjugated through conquest with kindness, respect their beliefs and customs, and ”modernize” them, then they’ll immediately be 100% on board with being conquered.
You don't seem to be reading very good alternate history, if I'm honest with you.
 
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