Part of the plot of the Drake's Drum series, the UK signs a peace treaty after the War of 1940 (it doesn't last)
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Alternate History General Discussion
- Thread starter Elektronaut
- Start date
Part of the plot of the Drake's Drum series, the UK signs a peace treaty after the War of 1940 (it doesn't last)
- Location
- Western New York
That (combined with a hand-wavy "Moscow falls, Nazis at the Urals eventually") is the basic POD of my In and Out of the Reich setting, although it's only alluded to as the stories take place in the 21st century. Not sure if that's what you're looking for.
- Location
- Sandford, Gloucestershire
- Pronouns
- She/They
- Location
- Western New York
I'll check both out
I hope you enjoy!
An unsuccessful peace talks in 1940 was the backstory to Len Deighton's XPD
I've just won a copy, negating the need to buy one!
Alexander Rooksmoor
Well-known member
Have a look at The Separation (2002) by Christopher Priest. It encompasses two parallel stories each seen through the eyes of one of a pair of twins. In one of these strands a peace treaty is negotiated in 1941 in which Hess is involved for the German side. It has been twenty years since I read it and Priest does mess around with narrative and unreliable narrators, so I cannot recall what causes the divergence.
Alexander Rooksmoor
Well-known member
Dominion (2012) by C.J. Sansom unfortunately making some basic errors and anachronisms, and especially becomes unnecessarily obsessed with Sansom's strong opposition to Scottish nationalism. However, follows the hoary chestnut of Halifax rather than Churchill becoming PM in May 1940 and Britain signing a peace with Germany which gets a Guantanamo-like base at Ventnor on the Isle of Wight.
Alexander Rooksmoor
Well-known member
Has anyone yet read: The Fiction Writer's Guide to Alternate History: A Handbook on Craft, Art, and History by Jack Dann? It came out in August (2023). It has a 3* rating on English-language Amazon off the back of just 1 review. I know Dann has written a lot, but even so the synopsis does come over as rather patronising. I wondered if the book fits that or is better.
This is it on Amazon:
This is it on Amazon:
The Fiction Writer's Guide to Alternate History: A Handbook on Craft, Art, and History
- Location
- Over the rainbow
I've seen it but have not yet picked it up. I have a lot of respect for Jack Dann as a writer, and felt privileged when one of my short stories ended up in an anthology with one of his, but that doesn't mean that I'm interested in a different writer's take on how to write alternate history. Alternate history is diverse, indeed fragmented enough that I don't think there's one right way to do it.
The part of the book which sounds most interesting to me is that part which is essentially a symposium with other writers (Robinson and Birmingham in particular being two whose views would interest me), but not yet enough to persuade me to shell out the cash for a copy of it.
The Boeing 727NG that never was.
Maybe because 1950s American cars were vanity objects that were only incidentally supposed to transport people. Airliners, on the other hand, had to be designed according to rational criteria.
Since I'm still on an airline kick, I'm pondering what difference a less fragile Comet would (or wouldn't) have made.
My possibly too deterministic thoughts are:
My possibly too deterministic thoughts are:
- The first jetliner out of the gate is going to have some huge mass crashing design flaw. That's just how early jets were.
- Even a luckier/safer Comet just gets some more orders before the 707 comes in and flattens it.
Between this and the African-American utopian community of Soul City, North Carolina seems to have a reputation for impossibly big dreams in impossibly small towns
InsertCoolUsernameHere
Member
What if the Socialist movement in Milwaukee was less successful? It had one of the most successful Socialist movements anywhere in the US, elected 3 socialist mayors, one serving from 1948 to 1960! During the Red Scare!. As a Wisconsinite, I was wondering how the city could have turned out differently if the Socialists had been less successful. From what I've gathered the main reason the party was so successful was due to the organizing efforts of Victor Berger, who built a formidable party machine based on strong links to the city's labor movement. I assume that without Berger, the city's Socialist movement would have been nowhere near as successful. Milwaukee Socialists were famous for their pragmatic and evolutionary "Sewer Socialism", emphasizing electoral success and bread-and-butter issues like clean municipal government and consumer safety protections over revolution and class warfare. Many Socialist Party members didn't see this as "real socialism", with national Party Chairman Morris Hilquilt famously declaring that in Milwaukee "Socialism consists of merely providing clean sewers."
How would Milwaukee have fared without the strong Socialist movement it had in the early 20th century? A lot of their reforms were just typical Progressive Era policies of the time, so is it possible that a reform-minded city government would have just enacted most of them around the same time, just without the red coat of paint?
One idea I had was that Milwaukee would probably be a smaller city geographically. In 1920 it was the second most densely populated city in the US, and a major focus of the Socialists was annexing huge chunks of land from surrounding towns to alleviate overcrowding and allow city residents to improve their standard of living. Unsurprisingly, the city's annexation often met stiff opposition from residents in the surrounding areas, culminating in the "Oak Creek Law" of 1955, passed specifically to allow the towns surrounding Milwaukee to incorporated themselves as cities, forming an "iron ring" around Milwaukee that prevented any further expansion. Without the Socialists I imagine the city wouldn't have annexed anywhere near as much land, which probably would have had significant impacts on the city's development
How would Milwaukee have fared without the strong Socialist movement it had in the early 20th century? A lot of their reforms were just typical Progressive Era policies of the time, so is it possible that a reform-minded city government would have just enacted most of them around the same time, just without the red coat of paint?
One idea I had was that Milwaukee would probably be a smaller city geographically. In 1920 it was the second most densely populated city in the US, and a major focus of the Socialists was annexing huge chunks of land from surrounding towns to alleviate overcrowding and allow city residents to improve their standard of living. Unsurprisingly, the city's annexation often met stiff opposition from residents in the surrounding areas, culminating in the "Oak Creek Law" of 1955, passed specifically to allow the towns surrounding Milwaukee to incorporated themselves as cities, forming an "iron ring" around Milwaukee that prevented any further expansion. Without the Socialists I imagine the city wouldn't have annexed anywhere near as much land, which probably would have had significant impacts on the city's development
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- Location
- Colwyn Bay/Manchester
- Pronouns
- He/him
I hadn't seen that specific quote before but I find it hilarious given how much Hillquit was the bete noire for generations of people who considered the SPA in general too moderate.
Apparently Sheikh Mansour, the current owner of Man City, was initially planning to purchase stakes in Everton before settling on the sister club of Manchester United.
Would have been interesting to see what would have happened had he decided to go through with purchasing Everton shares. Everton does have an extremely rich history and a really old fan base that would have been a really attractive prospect for any rich man to buy.
What a world! Imagine treble winning, 115 FFP violating Everton as they become known as the soulless oil club instead of the passionate, perpetually suffering old club they are now.
Wonder what the fans would think.
Would have been interesting to see what would have happened had he decided to go through with purchasing Everton shares. Everton does have an extremely rich history and a really old fan base that would have been a really attractive prospect for any rich man to buy.
What a world! Imagine treble winning, 115 FFP violating Everton as they become known as the soulless oil club instead of the passionate, perpetually suffering old club they are now.
Wonder what the fans would think.
It took me a couple of minutes to understand that this was about football. For a moment I wondered if this Man City was another Humansville, Missouri.
Intriguing "clear the decks" scenario
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Imagining the impossible — a government of national unity in the US
What might be sufficient to trigger a government of national unity in the US, confronting the country’s challenges, uncertainties and malaise? Echoing Charles Dickens’ Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come, we consider a message in a bottle from the future that offers one possible political journey.
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