• Hi Guest!

    The costs of running this forum are covered by Sea Lion Press. If you'd like to help support the company and the forum, visit patreon.com/sealionpress

Scenes We'd Like To See: Alternate Movies, Television & Other Pop Culture Miscellanea

“Upon Doctor Who being placed on indefinite hiatus in 2013, fans of the show worried for the future of the show’s existence. Indefinite Hiatus was to them, the beginning of the show’s inevitable cancellation.

But this was not the case. Doctor Who’s hiatus was more the case of internal wrangling over the ABC - BBC deal going sour and BBC overextending themselves with spin offs like UNIT Files and K9 on BBC America which whilst earning mostly positive reviews, failed to garner strong audience ratings.

The return of Jane Tranter back to the BBC as the new Controller of Vision was seen as a good sign, as under purview as Fiction Controller, Doctor Who had returned and found itself shepherded towards success. Meanwhile continued syndication on the ScFi Channel and CBC in the America’s had continued to hold surprisingly well ratings wise.

So the potential of another series was very much in the works, but who was to lead and star in this endeavour was very much the discussion of 2013 as Jack Thorne burnt out by the immense pressure of show running returned back to the world of theatre, whilst Richard Coyle had retired from the show anyway, with the climax of ‘Day of the Master’ Special seeing his character regenerating.

In the end, the new showrunner was to be an unlikely candidate, competing against strong pitches from Russell T. Davies and Toby Whitehouse, Howard Overman would secure the job. Overman’s background with creating the surprisingly successful show Misfits, Vexed and the cult success that was the BBC 2 Dirk Gently series starring Stephen Managan seemed to give him some pedigree, even if his interaction with Doctor Who was limited (stating he ‘enjoyed the new series’ and had written two scripts for the show as a collaboration with Mark Gatiss who helped produce the Dirk Gently series). Overman stated he was going to ‘shake things up’ and lean into a more fantastical and stylistic approach to Doctor Who.

Meanwhile the search for a new Doctor was a harder affair, actors like Paterson Joseph, David Morrissey, Peter Capaldi and Aidan Turner were all mooted at various points, but Overman’s ‘shaking things up’ attitude would eventually permeate towards the casting of Rory Kinnear who famously stated he had ‘never watched Doctor Who’ would win the role, much to the horror of some fans.

But whilst shaking things up, Overman was able to make some concessions towards the previous seasons and shows illustrious past. Kimberly Nixon would return as Claire and after negotiations with Kate O’Mara, the character of The Rani would return, played after several actresses were considered for role by Geraldine James, with the reveal kept a secret as to help provide supposed hype for the show.

Overman would see a one 12 episode series being commissioned with episodes predominantly written by Overman, Jamie Mathieson and Helen Raynor with episodes being mainly directed by Alice Troughton, Douglas Mackinnon and Paul Wilmshurst.

Thanks to production deals with CBC and ScFi, the series was able to secure funding for the two parter ‘Forest of the Dammned’ and the episode ‘Los Alamos’ to be filmed in British Columbia (in lewy of Washington State) and New Mexico & Colorado respectively, whilst much of the actual filming was done in London, Birmingham and Sheffield. Additionally the Electronic Music Duo, Orbital consisting of Paul & Phil Hartnoll, would be commissioned to compose the music for the series with support from the New Radiophonic Workshop.

Initial Buzz around the series would be positive, particularly the short ‘Time Warp’ done for the 2014 BBC Children in Need in which the Alan Cummings Doctor would find himself having to deal with Paul McGann and Rory Kinnear which many said showed that Kinnear was able to hold his own at least.

When the eventual series was broadcast in the Spring of 2015, much fanfare was provided to the show and initial viewership was high peaking at about six million for the First Episode ‘Renewal’ with additional million views occurring on BBC Iplayer.

But quickly viewership declined and reviews were mixed on the quality of the show, one review in ScFi Magazine rather neatly summed up the problem “Overman problem is that he can’t decide whether he’s going for a campy comic book style or a po faced grittiness and as a result the tone is muddled and episode’s fluctuate wildly in quality at times…at the end of the day, this series was an attempt to try and revive the series, but it’s not likely to convince new viewers who are already familiar with the past series, new fans who have drifted away during the Thorne years and old fans who still watch the show despite everything”.

However the main problem that blinkered the show’s potential was violence and horror. The show’s continued awkward relationship with Ofcom since the revival under Gatiss would get even more strained under Overman, thanks to two episodes, ‘Lights Out’ which had Dr Lowden rather gruesome death to the ‘Vampire’ and ‘The Midsts of Akhtarn’ which contained several scenes of people being brutally killed by nano-machines being cited as particular examples that would see Ofcom officially warn the BBC over the content of there shows after receiving over eight hundred complaints, as a result the BBC would announce all further episodes of Doctor Who would be broadcast from 7:30 but the damage was done.

Some praise was given to Kimberly Nixon’s continued portrayal of Claire, particularly her changed dynamic with Kinnear’s Doctor and Geraldine James would receive praise for her devilish interpretation of The Rani.

Despite it all, the main indicator was the flagging ratings, which by the end were hovering around the three million make, a drastic dip, even with BBC Iplayer viewing being accounted for, it seemed that this version of Doctor Who had failed to connect with audiences.

A New Year’s special ‘Revenge of the Rani’ was commissioned to wrap up plots lines from the series, but after it’s broadcast wrapped up, yet again the show was announced to be on indefinite hiatus. Howard Overman would state he would be stepping down and Rory Kinnear whilst thanking fans of the series for patient with him, said he felt that he wasn’t the best fit for the character at this time.

Once again, Doctor Who was back on the drawing board, with three years passing before a new series would be broadcast as problems once again reared there head…”
 
I've wondered how things would have gone had River Phoenix not died in 1993 at 23 years old from a drug overdose. He had a burgeoning acting career and was also a guitarist and songwriter, and he already had connections with a lot of celebrities in both industries who would go on to become big names themselves.

River had already been signed up to be the interviewer in Interview with the Vampire (1994), the part that went to Christian Slater after he died. Director Gus Van Sant had also wanted to make his movie Milk in the early 1990s and had gotten Phoenix to agree to a role, though its unlikely the movie would have been made then even if he had lived.

Oddly, Leonardo DiCaprio ended up taking a couple of roles that River Phoenix had been the main contender for - as lead for The Basketball Diaries, and he was James Cameron's original choice to play Jack Dawson in Titanic, a role that likely would have boosted him definitively into the Hollywood A-List.
 
I've wondered how things would have gone had River Phoenix not died in 1993 at 23 years old from a drug overdose. He had a burgeoning acting career and was also a guitarist and songwriter, and he already had connections with a lot of celebrities in both industries who would go on to become big names themselves.

River had already been signed up to be the interviewer in Interview with the Vampire (1994), the part that went to Christian Slater after he died. Director Gus Van Sant had also wanted to make his movie Milk in the early 1990s and had gotten Phoenix to agree to a role, though its unlikely the movie would have been made then even if he had lived.

Oddly, Leonardo DiCaprio ended up taking a couple of roles that River Phoenix had been the main contender for - as lead for The Basketball Diaries, and he was James Cameron's original choice to play Jack Dawson in Titanic, a role that likely would have boosted him definitively into the Hollywood A-List.
An alt-DiCaprio career is always interested.

Maybe DiCaprio is casted as Anakin.
 
Working on my next fake TV show, this time a Weird Western that replaces Into the Badlands.

Night Mares

It's all because of Nick Frost.

When Shaun of the Dead came out, if you had told me that 15 years later, Frost would play an Old West mountain man and brawler, and not in a comedic manner, I never would have believed you. And yet, it happened. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

I started with Night Mares on the ground floor. The premise - occult investigators in the Old West - is right up my alley, and Molly Quinn was one of my favorite cast members on Castle, so I was an easy sell. The show did not disappoint.

Aired on AMC between 2017 and 2021.

premise (the Night Mares are a secret sisterhood of occult investigators, in this case a pair of Irish-American sisters living in San Francisco in the early 1870s) and inspiration (Stephen King, The Adventures of Brisco County Jr, etc.)

main cast

Emily Beecham as Anne Brophy, occult troubleshooter
Molly Quinn as Maggie Brophy, bookish type
Lewis Tan as Gwok Zidaan, ex-miner, gunslinger
Tania Raymonde as Sister Isabel Ramirez
Leighton Meester as Hannah Visser, member of the San Francisco Owl Club
Nick Frost as "Savage" Sam Henderson

recurring cast

Orla Brady as Caoimhe McLarney, Anne's mentor
Demore Barnes as King Brady, rival troubleshooter
Terry O'Quinn as Thaddeus Clarke, head of the Owl Club
Rachel Nichols as Gloria Clarke, Owl Club member, witch and Anne's nemesis
JuJu Chan as Gwok Maanjuk, Zidaan's sister
Francois Chau as Gwok Zungsam. Zidaan's father
James Hong as Gwok Wahbo, Zidaan's great uncle
Max Martini as Theodore Poole, Talon of the Owl Club (their enforcer and assassin)

season 1

episode 1 - "Once Upon a Time in the Weird West" part 1
episode 2 - "Once Upon a Time in the Weird West" part 2, cameo by Lera Lynn (the vocalist for the opening credits)
episode 3 - "The Owl Club"
episode 4 - "Haunting at High Noon" ghost town with actual ghosts, "Savage" Sam Henderson's first appearance
episode 5 - "The Mentor" Caoimhe's first appearance
episode 6 - "Midnight in Massacre Canyon"
episode 7 - "The Blood Countess" Bathory (Rachel Weisz), a harrowing opening scene where Bathory stalks and brutally devours two tavern girls (Renee Olstead and Leven Rambin)
episode 8 - "The Wolf of Mariposa County" werewolf
episode 9 - "LIghts on Mount Shasta" ghost lights
episode 10 - "The Talon" (Max Martini) arrives from back east, introduces the Atlantean arc

season 2

episode 1 - "The Map" Atlantean map
episode 2 - "Goengsi" Chinese vampire
episode 3 - "Devil's Hoof Hill" Katie McGrath in a scenery-chewing turn as villainess Mary Burke
episode 4 - "Ghost Quelling Society" Chinese plot part 1
episode 5 - "Ghost Quelling Society" Chinese plot part 2
episode 6 - "Dust Devils" dust devils as Mary and Zidaan are traveling through the mountains
episode 7 - "Encounter at Hangman Hill" Sasquatch
episode 8 - "The Cantonese Mine" abandoned mine
episode 9 - "Old Man Mountain" Atlantean tomb part 1
episode 10 - "Old Man Mountain" Atlantean tomb part 2

season 3

episode 1 - "The Eye" the Eye of Harun, an ancient Atlantean artifact
episode 2 - "High Society" Hannah-centric episode with Lena Headey as Isabella Bird (real life traveler and writer; her travels in the American West took place in 1873)
episode 3 - "Shadow of the Ghost" Chinese episode
episode 4 - "The Old Mission" Sister Isabel and Maggie adventure
episode 5 - "Fangs" Bathory returns, targets Maggie who drives her off without any weapons except her faith
episode 6 - "Via Crucis" Maggie begins to question her calling
episode 7 - "The Knife" Caoimhe is killed by the Clarkes and Poole
episode 8 - "Tremors" finale part 1 - tremors
episode 9 - "The Big One" finale part 2 - the big one, Anne gets her revenge on Gloria and Poole
episode 10 - "Aftershocks" finale part 3. - aftershocks, the Owl Club purged, Anne and Zidaan go to China, Maggie takes her vows.
 
Last edited:
I'm a big fan of the second season, despite it robbing us of a Jose Chung episode during the short-lived run of The Lone Gunmen.

I loved how they went "Fuck it, we're ending the world" and gave us that insane season ending montage.

And then they pulled the plug on that in season 3. Cowards.
 
Morgan & Wong in charge of The X-Files would have been... something else.

You think that's wild, imagine how the show would have been if Darin Morgan had been in charge.

(13 confusing episodes and then cancelled by a baffled network, after which Darin retires even earlier than he did in OTL)
 
You think that's wild, imagine how the show would have been if Darin Morgan had been in charge.

(13 confusing episodes and then cancelled by a baffled network, after which Darin retires even earlier than he did in OTL)
To turn this into an actual AH possibility: Chris Carter originally managed both The X-Files and Millennium. For the second season of Millennium, Carter passed the reins over to Glen Morgan and James Wong whilst he focused on season five of The X-Files and its proposed film. Morgan and Wong brought Darin Morgan with them to Millennium.

Here's where it gets interesting: there was a possibility that the fifth season of The X-Files would be its last. And this isn't like my totally-not-a-conspiracy-theory that The Simpsons was to end after season 9, David Duchovny has said as much. The idea was to turn the still lucrative X-Files property into a series of films. However, the program proved too lucrative to Fox and so two more seasons were ordered. This also resulted in production moving from Vancouver to Los Angeles at the behest of Duchovny who wanted to be closer to his wife, Tea Leoni.

Now, imagine if the ratings for Millennium hold well enough during its first season that it seems like the more lucrative role than winding down The X-Files? Say there's the odd episode that steers away from the morose tone so it ends the season with more viewers. Carter instead continued to be in charge at Millennium, is developing The X-Files for film, and hands over the management of the final season of The X-Files to Glen Morgan and James Wong?

I think in that scenario season five of The X-Files is better than the one we got. It's here that the Mytharc really begins to go off the rails but there might be less of it with Carter busy elsewhere. Darin Morgan likely stays with The X-Files and does a couple episodes. Likely we still get episodes from Carter, Vince Gilligan, and Frank Spotnitz. This was also the season that saw Stephen King, William Gibson, and Tom Maddox write episodes.

Of course, its possible the timeline may just correct itself: Millennium sees an even bigger decline in viewers as Fox doesn't feel the need to demand changes to the tone set in season one. Fox still wants two more seasons of The X-Files, and further films are shelved after the first. We just end up with a worse second season of Millennium and a better fifth season of The X-Files.

Then there's the possibility that everything works out. Some concessions are made to the tone of Millennium for its second season, and more continuity behind-the-scenes leads to it having a season or two more than OTL, perhaps even ending on its own terms. The X-Files ends its television run on top and becomes a series of films lasting into the late 00s. Fox might be willing to commission a few shorter run series in lieu of two more from The X-Files: perhaps The Lone Gunmen, maybe different ideas pitched by Morgan & Wong, Darin Morgan, Spotnitz or Gilligan.
 
I loved how they went "Fuck it, we're ending the world" and gave us that insane season ending montage.

And then they pulled the plug on that in season 3. Cowards.

Having actually watched the last scene of season 2, I realize I had conflated that with the earlier Kristen Cloke freak-out scene. Oops.

Still, pretty ballsy to end the season with civilization collapsing, even if not as insanely as I remembered all this time.
 
Here's a fictional most controversial ad ever that I've had in my mind.

SETTING: (INSERT POD HERE)

Super Bowl XLI was a game in which the middling, lucky New York Owls[1] defeated the dominant and heavy favorite (-10.5) Pittsburgh Steelers 14-10. It is known for two things. The first is the "Mitsuko Dash", where Owls quarterback Charlie Cole scored the winning touchdown by audibling in a quarterback draw and running past the defense[2]. The second is the infamous Ueno Motors "cat commercial". At the two minute warning in the fourth quarter, viewers were treated to one of the most bizarre and disturbing car commercials ever.

Ominous and screeching avant-garde jazz plays as grainy vintage-style film shows a room. A man in a chemical suit picks up a longhaired Siamese cat and places it in a machine of some kind. The commercial cuts to the pushing of a button and a hideous grinding noise, followed by a close-up of what looks like shredded cat (it was ground beef, dye, and pillow stuff) pouring out of it. Then the narrator speaks quickly. "The new 2007 Ueno Gambeson. Now with satellite navigation as standard." The obligatory "No animals were harmed in the making of this commercial" appeared as a small barely visible flash.

The ad was for a middle-luxury crossover SUV, and no one even knows if it succeeded or not. The ad was kicked around and almost canceled before being bought late in the game with the expectation that it would be a boring Steelers blowout. Instead over a hundred million people were on the edge of their seats, so they saw the commercial. It was controversial, and both Ueno Motors and other advertisers made their offerings less edgy for a few years afterwards.


[1]Fictional third expansion team in New York.
[2]In English, this means he yelled a code word to change the play at the last second and then carried out a play where he moved back as if to throw in order to fool the opposing team before running forward.
 
Working on my next fake TV show, this time a Weird Western that replaces Into the Badlands.

Night Mares

It's all because of Nick Frost.

When Shaun of the Dead came out, if you had told me that 15 years later, Frost would play an Old West mountain man and brawler, and not in a comedic manner, I never would have believed you. And yet, it happened. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

I started with Night Mares on the ground floor. The premise - occult investigators in the Old West - is right up my alley, and Molly Quinn was one of my favorite cast members on Castle, so I was an easy sell. The show did not disappoint.

Aired on AMC between 2017 and 2021.

premise (the Night Mares are a secret sisterhood of occult investigators, in this case a pair of Irish-American sisters living in San Francisco in the early 1870s) and inspiration (Stephen King, The Adventures of Brisco County Jr, etc.)

main cast

Emily Beecham as Anne Brophy, occult troubleshooter
Molly Quinn as Maggie Brophy, bookish type
Lewis Tan as Gwok Zidaan, ex-miner, gunslinger
Tania Raymonde as Sister Isabel Ramirez
Leighton Meester as Hannah Visser, member of the San Francisco Owl Club
Nick Frost as "Savage" Sam Henderson

recurring cast

Orla Brady as Caoimhe McLarney, Anne's mentor
Demore Barnes as King Brady, rival troubleshooter
Terry O'Quinn as Thaddeus Clarke, head of the Owl Club
Rachel Nichols as Gloria Clarke, Owl Club member, witch and Anne's nemesis
JuJu Chan as Gwok Maanjuk, Zidaan's sister
Francois Chau as Gwok Zungsam. Zidaan's father
James Hong as Gwok Wahbo, Zidaan's great uncle
Max Martini as Theodore Poole, Talon of the Owl Club (their enforcer and assassin)

season 1

episode 1 - "Once Upon a Time in the Weird West" part 1
episode 2 - "Once Upon a Time in the Weird West" part 2, cameo by Lera Lynn (the vocalist for the opening credits)
episode 3 - "The Owl Club"
episode 4 - "Haunting at High Noon" ghost town with actual ghosts, "Savage" Sam Henderson's first appearance
episode 5 - "The Mentor" Caoimhe's first appearance
episode 6 - "Midnight in Massacre Canyon"
episode 7 - "The Blood Countess" Bathory (Rachel Weisz), a harrowing opening scene where Bathory stalks and brutally devours two tavern girls (Renee Olstead and Leven Rambin)
episode 8 - "The Wolf of Mariposa County" werewolf
episode 9 - "LIghts on Mount Shasta" ghost lights
episode 10 - "The Talon" (Max Martini) arrives from back east, introduces the Atlantean arc

season 2

episode 1 - "The Map" Atlantean map
episode 2 - "Goengsi" Chinese vampire
episode 3 - "Devil's Hoof Hill" Katie McGrath in a scenery-chewing turn as villainess Mary Burke
episode 4 - "Ghost Quelling Society" Chinese plot part 1
episode 5 - "Ghost Quelling Society" Chinese plot part 2
episode 6 - "Dust Devils" dust devils as Mary and Zidaan are traveling through the mountains
episode 7 - "Encounter at Hangman Hill" Sasquatch
episode 8 - "The Cantonese Mine" abandoned mine
episode 9 - "Old Man Mountain" Atlantean tomb part 1
episode 10 - "Old Man Mountain" Atlantean tomb part 2

season 3

episode 1 - "The Eye" the Eye of Harun, an ancient Atlantean artifact
episode 2 - "High Society" Hannah-centric episode with Lena Headey as Isabella Bird (real life traveler and writer; her travels in the American West took place in 1873)
episode 3 - "Shadow of the Ghost" Chinese episode
episode 4 - "The Old Mission" Sister Isabel and Maggie adventure
episode 5 - "Fangs" Bathory returns, targets Maggie who drives her off without any weapons except her faith
episode 6 - "Via Crucis" Maggie begins to question her calling
episode 7 - "The Knife" Caoimhe is killed by the Clarkes and Poole
episode 8 - "Tremors" finale part 1 - tremors
episode 9 - "The Big One" finale part 2 - the big one, Anne gets her revenge on Gloria and Poole
episode 10 - "Aftershocks" finale part 3. - aftershocks, the Owl Club purged, Anne and Zidaan go to China, Maggie takes her vows.
Donner Lake isn't too far from SF: An episode dealing with supernatural after-effects of the Donner Party (wendigos?)
 
I've mentioned once or twice my vague idea for a TNG where the Romulans are the Federation's allies instead of the Klingons, which I think is a lot truer to TOS depictions of the two species. I wonder how that would play out on the show. What would the "Worf" look like here? An early role for Michelle Forbes, perhaps? Wikipedia says she got her first TV role in 1987, so it's a stretch but not an enormous one.
 
I've mentioned once or twice my vague idea for a TNG where the Romulans are the Federation's allies instead of the Klingons, which I think is a lot truer to TOS depictions of the two species. I wonder how that would play out on the show. What would the "Worf" look like here? An early role for Michelle Forbes, perhaps? Wikipedia says she got her first TV role in 1987, so it's a stretch but not an enormous one.
Marina Sirtis plays the *Worf, whilst Michael Dorn is squeezed into a onesie as the ship's counsellor.
 
Back
Top