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Northwest Ordinance extended to the Louisiana Territory

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Ricardolindo

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What if the Northwest Ordinance had been extended to the Louisiana Territory? This would have banned slavery in Arkansas and Missouri. Arkansas almost certainly would have legalized it after gaining statehood but I doubt Missouri would have. What do you think would have been the effects of this? An obvious one would be that, with Missouri as a free state, there would be no Bleeding Kansas.
 
Alex Richards said:
I really don't see how there'd have been the votes to do this at that stage. Even historically there were efforts in the 1820s to legalise slavery in Ohio, Illinois and Indiana.
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In his famous book, The Dred Scott case, Fehrenbacher argued that the anti-slavery forces wasted their chance by trying to restrict slavery in the Orleans Territory, which they had almost no chance of succeeding at and that if they had, instead, tried to restrict it in the rest of the Louisiana Purchase, they would have had a good chance of success. Also, remember this would have been a pre-statehood restriction.
 
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Ricardolindo said:
In his famous book, The Dred Scott case, Fehrenbacher argued that the anti-slavery forces wasted their chance by trying to restrict slavery in the Orleans Territory, which they had almost no chance of succeeding at and that if they had, instead, tried to restrict it in the rest of the Louisiana Purchase, they would have had a good chance of success. Also, remember this would have been a pre-statehood restriction.
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Maybe, I'd have to see Febrenbacher's precise wording, and his citations, if he has any. Even a quick quote of his phrasing would be helpful. I would also tend to think that in the area immediately north of Orleans territory, the state of Louisiana, ie Arkansas, a slavery ban would be highly vulnerable to legislative reversal (like in lower midwest attempts, only successful). A slave Louisiana state, is enough to make it at least a 50-50 chance any Anglo-Texas would become a slave slave state.
 
raharris1973 said:
Maybe, I'd have to see Febrenbacher's precise wording, and his citations, if he has any. Even a quick quote of his phrasing would be helpful. I would also tend to think that in the area immediately north of Orleans territory, the state of Louisiana, ie Arkansas, a slavery ban would be highly vulnerable to legislative reversal (like in lower midwest attempts, only successful). A slave Louisiana state, is enough to make it at least a 50-50 chance any Anglo-Texas would become a slave slave state.
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As I said back in 2020, Arkansas almost certainly would have legalized slavery after gaining statehood but I doubt Missouri would have.
 
An interesting thing about the Northwest Ordinance in general is that it had a requirement of 60,000 people prior to statehood. If that requirement remained in force Nevada's statehood might have been delayed for decades. It didn't approach a population of 60,000 until the 1880 Census and then it dipped back down that level until the 1910 Census. There were periods in which it had significantly less population than some of the territories.
 
Delta Force said:
An interesting thing about the Northwest Ordinance in general is that it had a requirement of 60,000 people prior to statehood. If that requirement remained in force Nevada's statehood might have been delayed for decades. It didn't approach a population of 60,000 until the 1880 Census and then it dipped back down that level until the 1910 Census. There were periods in which it had significantly less population than some of the territories.
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Nevada only became a state during the American Civil War because the Republicans wanted more Senate seats and electoral college votes.
 
Ricardolindo said:
In his famous book, The Dred Scott case, Fehrenbacher argued that the anti-slavery forces wasted their chance by trying to restrict slavery in the Orleans Territory, which they had almost no chance of succeeding at and that if they had, instead, tried to restrict it in the rest of the Louisiana Purchase, they would have had a good chance of success. Also, remember this would have been a pre-statehood restriction.
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From the perspective of OTL, the extension of slavery west of the Mississippi (other than Louisiana/Orleans Territory) just meant two slave states (Missouri and Arkansas) prior to the Texas war. Arkansas wasn't even admitted until 1836 and was paired with Michigan in 1837. Political tensions would not be immediate.

I could foresee the division of Maine from Massachusetts being put off. On the other hand, it could just be paired with an earlier West Virginia. Revived efforts to break of West Virginia began to be considered as early as the 1820s.

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After that, there is the prospect of two or even three Floridas. West Florida (west of the Suwanee River) and East Florida (east of the Suwanee River and down to the 27th parallel just south of Tampa) and South Florida (south of the 27th parallel).
 
Jackson Lennock said:
From the perspective of OTL, the extension of slavery west of the Mississippi (other than Louisiana/Orleans Territory) just meant two slave states (Missouri and Arkansas) prior to the Texas war. Arkansas wasn't even admitted until 1836 and was paired with Michigan in 1837. Political tensions would not be immediate.

I could foresee the division of Maine from Massachusetts being put off. On the other hand, it could just be paired with an earlier West Virginia. Revived efforts to break of West Virginia began to be considered as early as the 1820s.

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After that, there is the prospect of two or even three Floridas. West Florida (west of the Suwanee River) and East Florida (east of the Suwanee River and down to the 27th parallel just south of Tampa) and South Florida (south of the 27th parallel).
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South Florida was almost unpopulated at this time, I can't see it becoming a state.
 
Ricardolindo said:
Settlement of South Florida wasn't feasible until the Everglades were drained. It was a disease ridden hellhole.
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I'm including the southern portion of central florida as part of a South Florida. Settlements on the gulf coast just south of Tampa began in the 1840s. There were also forts dotting the southeast coast which formed small trade centers, although they certainly weren't population hubs.


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The idea from the following thread about East Tennessee becoming a state might also catch on.

East Tennessee becomes a state in 1841-43

The late David Tenner showed at https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/east-tennessee-becomes-a-separate-state-1841-3.532633/ that East Tennessee came close to becoming a separate state in 1841-1843. What if it did? As David noted, despite having few slaves, East Tennessee would be a...
forum.sealionpress.co.uk
 
Perhaps the US would look something like this come 1850.

Because the Northwest Ordinance is extended to Missouri Territory, John Quincy Adams does not intentionally limit what the US seeks to get in Texas in order to limit the spread of slavery further. Later on, Mexico is purchased north of the 35th parallel.

Meanwhile, the Yucatan Republic's attempt to be annexed by the US succeeds because there is no alternative conflict with the US going on.

I think instead of East Tennessee breaking off, the lands around the Jackson Purchase in Kentucky and Tennessee could become a state. Meanwhile Kanawha would be a smaller state because it is ceded voluntarily by Virginia, and Texas is admitted as two states.

1689464288207.png
 
Jackson Lennock said:
The idea from the following thread about East Tennessee becoming a state might also catch on.

East Tennessee becomes a state in 1841-43

The late David Tenner showed at https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/east-tennessee-becomes-a-separate-state-1841-3.532633/ that East Tennessee came close to becoming a separate state in 1841-1843. What if it did? As David noted, despite having few slaves, East Tennessee would be a...
forum.sealionpress.co.uk
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You beat me to mentioning it.
Anyways, another possibility is that in this scenario, the United States makes a bigger push to get Texas east of the Colorado River in the Adams-Onís Treaty in 1819.
 
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