Maps Thread

[Jackson Lennock]

A Map Thread seemed a good idea.

Here is my first - the Russo - Japanese Compromise of 1904 in the year 1912. Russia's demand for a neutral zone in Korea north of the 39th Parallel is responded to by Japan with a counteroffer: "Sure, if you give us Southern Sakhalin." Russia responds with a further demand that Northern Korea be recognized as Russian in influence and to include the mouth of the Taedong in the Russian Zone.

Later, the Gando Convention results in Russia negotiation for Korea gaining much of the lands which belonged to Balhae (conveniently putting the Southern Manchuria Railroad in Russia's client state). Shortly afterwards, Korea sells portions of the Liaodong Peninsula north of Russian Port Arthur to Russia. Japan declares Southern Korea annexed to Japan in 1910, with the Empire of Korea's Capital moving to Pyongyang. Then with the Xinhai Revolution, Russia gobbles up much of the remainder of Manchuria. Since 1911, there has been sizable migration of Koreans from Japanese Korea to the Korean Empire.

 

[Jackson Lennock]

A map of Europe following the fall of the Soviet Union. Here, Poland retained of its eastern territories following WW2. Stalin became convinced that the Ukrainians of Galicia were too nationalistically-minded to be absorbed into the Soviet Union, and left the area with Poland. Poland also retained Grodno.

 

[History Learner]

I've been on an American Civil War binge lately, and I revived a Timeline idea I've played around with for roughly five years or so whenever the mood to work on it strikes me. Basically, it started out as an effort to make a more realistic GURPS Dixie-1 scenario, but also incorporating elements of TL-191 into it. Original PoD started as the Confederates winning the Siege of Chattanooga, but has since evolved into a Chickamauga PoD, thanks to Dave Powell's excellent Decisions at Chickamauga.

Spoiler: PoD: Bragg attacks on the morning of September 19th

End result is Thomas is routed off the field with heavy losses while McCook and Crittenden, with five out of the 10 Divisions in the Army of the Cumberland, are forced to surrender with their route of retreat cut off. Powell also points out a lot of their baggage trains, the Union hospitals and a few brigades were also in danger of being picked off by the Confederates in the event of a Federal retreat at this stage, so those get lost too in the aftermath. Very likely the Army of the Cumberland loses somewhere between 35,000 to 40,000 of the 60,000 men it went into combat with in this scenario. Bragg retakes Chattanooga and can then pursue the Federals to Nashville, undoing all the gains Rosecrans had won since the Battle of Stone's River the previous winter. Copperhead Democrats win the midterm elections, and this is the political signal for (Anglo?) French intervention that forces an end to the war in the Spring of 1864.

With peace, the Confederates spend the next decade paying off their domestic debt and rebuilding, while E.P. Alexander is able to get Richmond to buy up the British Armstrong guns when the UK begins to sell them off. U.S. politics are somewhat in chaos through the remainder of the 1860s, and the British are able to use this to secure Alaska for the nascent Canada and to establish a protectorate over Hawaii, boxing both the Americans and the Confederates out of the Pacific on a large scale. Confederates ambitions, once able, return southwards particularly as the French are still forced to gradually pull out as the balance of power in Europe begins to turn away from them with Prussia rising. When the Emperor Maxmillian dies in 1875 without issue or a designated heir (He never had one IOTL and was likely infertile), the loss of the Monarchy leaves Mexico in a power vacuum. The Confederacy thus steps in and annexes the country, due to its ties to local strongmen like Santiago Vidaurri as well as heavy influence on the Mexican military and economy.

 

[Walpurgisnacht]

Copperhead Democrats win the midterm elections, and this is the political signal for (Anglo?) French intervention

Why would the British and the French intervene? What, exactly, are they getting out of this?

The Confederacy thus steps in and annexes the country, due to its ties to local strongmen like Santiago Vidaurri as well as heavy influence on the Mexican military and economy.

...and how, exactly, would a state with a very poorly maintained standing army, low political cohesion, and highly discriminatory attitude towards the majority of its nearly 10 million new citizens be able to just walk in and announce they were in charge? Based on your evidence, I could see them annexing Nuevo Leon and the Riograndese bits of Northern Mexico, where they had something of an in, as well as making a play for Sonora and Chihuahua to get that Pacific port, but marching right the way down to Mexico City seems like something of a hard sell, especially since they wouldn't be unopposed. France still has its interests in the region, after all, and the US would probably try and support whatever liberal rebels arose.

 

[History Learner]

Why would the British and the French intervene? What, exactly, are they getting out of this?



...and how, exactly, would a state with a very poorly maintained standing army, low political cohesion, and highly discriminatory attitude towards the majority of its nearly 10 million new citizens be able to just walk in and announce they were in charge? Based on your evidence, I could see them annexing Nuevo Leon and the Riograndese bits of Northern Mexico, where they had something of an in, as well as making a play for Sonora and Chihuahua to get that Pacific port, but marching right the way down to Mexico City seems like something of a hard sell, especially since they wouldn't be unopposed. France still has its interests in the region, after all, and the US would probably try and support whatever liberal rebels arose.

Not really the thread to have a debate on it, would you like to start another so we don't derail this one?

 

[Walpurgisnacht]

Not really the thread to have a debate on it, would you like to start another so we don't derail this one?

If you insist.

 

[Jackson Lennock]

For what it's worth, I like to think of map threads where alt history gets more creative. It's about the fun of indulging the idea on the map, rather than being strict about the historical plausibility.

 

[Jackson Lennock]

A map of Northeast Asia in 1910. Here, there was no tripartite intervention. Japan retained the Liaodong Peninsula, secured Gando for Korea at the Gando Convention, and annexed Korea in 1910.

Russia here secures a warm water port at Qinhuangdao instead. Also present are German Qingdao and British Weihaiwei.

 

[Jackson Lennock]

A map of the Middle East following the Israeli-Egyptian Peace Agreement. Here, King Abdullah avoided assassination in 1951, and an Israeli-Jordanian peace agreement was signed in 1952. Jordan and Israel engaged in land swaps, and Jordanian custodianship over Al Aqsa was recognized. Later, Israel annexed Gaza and gave all residents citizenship status.

Israeli policy became as follows: resettlement for internally displaced refugees (i.e, Gazans and other Arab Israelis) out of a compensation fund. Gazans and Israeli Arabs were given the option to relocate to Jordan with an Israeli stipend if they so chose, or to accept the Israeli internal resettlement option.

Shortly after the Israeli-Jordanian peace agreement, Lebanon recognized Israel. Palestinian refugees in Lebanon were given a "right of return" to Jordan.