Discuss about a Anatolian or Greater Caucasian populated Bronze Age Near East

[Albert the Singularity]

Hello, everyone.

I was writing a timeline back in November 2019, about a Near Eastern Scenario, about a Mitanni-Anatolian treaty. I am planning to redo the same in a more grander and detailed manner.

I would like some opinions about an Indo-European Anatolian expansion into the Middle East, or a Greater Caucasian expansion (Middle East already has a huge component of ancestry from this), from the Kura-Araxes Culture, which would contain various Caucasian peoples like the Hatti, Kaskians, Hurro-Urartians, Kartivelans, possibly Northeast and Northwest Caucasian peoples (Kaskians are thought to be related to the NW Caucasian Circassians) and possibly some exotic and lost families of other languages and even a branch of a very old and rare Indo-European one. Kura-Araxes culture stretched into Modern Day Israel and Lebanon, so this is a very easy thing to happen.

I would like your comments about how such a World's History would be affected. For one, Afro-Asiatic expansion outside Arabian peninsula might not happen, and Semitic peoples might be limited around their birthplace (North Arabian Peninsula), and East Africa.

A possibility of a Caucasian Egypt reigns high. Ancient Egypt already had close relations to an OTL Caucasian Kingdom of Mitanni. I suppose of the Kura-Araxes expansion happens before the Afro-Asiatic one, Egypt and North Africa might be a Caucasian, as well (Anatolians have no chance of populating Egypt, as they are late entrants, from the steppe).

A lot of Old Iranian Civilizations might get butterflied and replaced, with such a large and early expansion of the Kura-Araxes. Elamites, Gutians and BMAC (all with West Asian and North African origins), might not exist. This in turn might effect the Steppes being Nomadic and the Indo-Iranian expansion to the South. They might be a large agricultural group on the Pontus and Volga. Europe gets an additional Language family.

The vacuum left due to the non existence of Phoenicians or an equal, and a less expansive Greece, could lead to Celtic, Iberian and Basque Civilizations arising in the Western Europe.

Edit: Thracians and Greeks might end up in a slightly weaker position, as such a strong and unified Anatolia and West Asia might prevent their expansions into the East. The Bithyni might be limited to Europe. As for Phrygians, if they are an early entrant, they are probably a part of the Anatolian confederation and flourish, but if they are a later entrant, they might be limited to the Balkans. Either way, Balkans will be diverse and might see City states and kingdoms on the river basins.

Edit2: Oops! Forgot the biggest one! The OTL religions, originating mostly from the Middle East or from a Roman influenced territory, might not exist, as all regions of Europe and West/Central Asia have their own stable kingdoms/empires/states. Indo-Iranians staying up North means no Zoroastrianism and Hinduism, either. Modern World might be more free, decentralised and advanced, IATL. This is actually the reason that led me to start this timeline in October 2019. I can link that for reference but not sure about this website's rules (that's on Alternatehistory.com).

Other details: In the Timeline. I want your opinions for the discussed aspects.

 

[Albert the Singularity]

I am annexing this video, to give you an idea about the timescales and the fine details. Going by the Video, I think the ones living to the South of the Caucasus mountains, stand an excellent chance (Hurro-Urartians, Kartivelians and Kaskians).

 

[Gorro Rubio]

I am annexing this video, to give you an idea about the timescales and the fine details. Going by the Video, I think the ones living to the South of the Caucasus mountains, stand an excellent chance (Hurro-Urartians, Kartivelians and Kaskians).

Mmm not sure if I trust this video. Hittites had entered Anatolia as early as 2500 BC according to the latest archaeological findings, and there’s solid evidence of Indo-European continuity in the Armenian plateau for the last 4000 years.

 

[Albert the Singularity]

Mmm not sure if I trust this video. Hittites had entered Anatolia as early as 2500 BC according to the latest archaeological findings, and there’s solid evidence of Indo-European continuity in the Armenian plateau for the last 4000 years.

This video does not feature any Indo-European languages. The user has made a separate video for the extinct Indo-European branch called Anatolian, which includes Hittite. However, to note, Hattians and Hittites, though they get the name from the former, aren't the same people. Hittites, in fact, get the name from the previously Caucasian speaking city called Hatti, which was conquered by the Indo-European Anatolians, eventually resulting in the shift of language.

Hattian, as with the others depicted in the above video, originate from the Ancient Caucasus, along with the Kaskian and Hurro-Urartian. Eventually, these people were conquered by the various IE migrants, leading to a shift in the language. However, the same user has created a video for Indo-European Anatolian languages. Here is that.

 

[Albert the Singularity]

Here is the original timeline that was being written on AH. Obeying this site's rules, let's keep the "Outside Drama" out of this, but we will look at my subject matter, which is more important here.

What do you think? Shall I continue that timeline as it was going on? Shall I restart it by taking the important elements from that? I am inclined to start anew by keeping some important elements because I had missed the mention of Armenians, Phrygians and Anatolian Thracians (Bithyni).

On the Gallo-Iberian side, I would like to refine the Basque, Celtic, Exotic Indo-European ones like the Lusitanians, and the Iberian Civilizations, from the older 2019 timeline. I would like to configure the East and the West, to be conducive for rapid Scientific advancement (Natural Philosophy, if you use an Ancient word).

This is the link to the older Timeline, that was being written in the good old 2019. Let's hope good days will come before this is finished, by a combination of vaccination and a few miracles..

https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...an-empowered-anatolian-mitanni-empire.476748/

 

[Alex Richards]

Here is the original timeline that was being written on AH. Obeying this site's rules, let's keep the "Outside Drama" out of this, but we will look at my subject matter, which is more important here.

What do you think? Shall I continue that timeline as it was going on? Shall I restart it by taking the important elements from that? I am inclined to start anew by keeping some important elements because I had missed the mention of Armenians, Phrygians and Anatolian Thracians (Bithyni).

On the Gallo-Iberian side, I would like to refine the Basque, Celtic, Exotic Indo-European ones like the Lusitanians, and the Iberian Civilizations, from the older 2019 timeline. I would like to configure the East and the West, to be conducive for rapid Scientific advancement (Natural Philosophy, if you use an Ancient word).

I think you've forgotten the link

 

[Albert the Singularity]

I think you've forgotten the link

Thanks for pointing out! Corrected now.

 

[Albert the Singularity]

So here are some teasers:

Eurasia will end up being mostly Sedentary and Semi Nomadic, and will have advanced civilizations and cities, on the huge river valleys like Volga, Ural, Yenisei and Amu Darya (Vaksh/Oxus).

Middle East, Persia, Central Asia, North Africa and Indian Subcontinent will become an extension of Europe, culturally and ethnically. This is because of the Eurasian Agriculturalist continuum. You will have multiple super families like the Indo-European and Uralic language families. A few derived from the Caucasian and Turkic languages, too. All these regions have majority of the populations descended from the CHG, EHG and Scandinavian hunter gatherer ancestry (due to the Uralic Agricultural settlements).

East Asia might end up culturally, almost same as OTL but due to the early Agriculturalist migration and settlement, could end up more Caucasian, with the mixture of the CHG (Caucasian Hunter Gatherers) and various EHG (Eastern Hunter Gatherer) groups. Plus some later migrant mixture like the Tocharians and the Aryan superset group (Indo-Iranians), all of whom would be more sedentary, advanced, agriculturalist and numerous.

Indus Valley, Dravidian, Elamite, Gutian and BMAC languages will survive like the Basque. Anatomically and culturally similar to the neighbours and linguistically unique. These languages were probably derived from Neolithic Iranian and Anatolian farmer languages. All Kura-Araxes languages including Hurro-Urartian will survive.

North Africa will be mostly Celtic with some distributions of Berber peoples, while Levant will be mostly Anatolian and Indo-Iranian (ITTL Aryan superset as the split doesn't happen) language speakers. Distributions of Greek speakers exist in all these lands, alongside the natives, and matrilineally mixed with the natives.