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There are plenty of threads at the other place about how Jutland could have gone differently, but they normally rely on what are doubtless fascinating and well-informed analyses of the various British and German ships.
This thread is for something different.
By the turn of the twentieth century the Royal Navy's cultural and political cachet was at an all time high; it was certainly far more prestigious than the British army, its great victory at Trafalgar was a minor holiday, and admirals like Charles Beresford were national celebrities despite having largely served in peace-time.
Britannia ruled the waves, and all that.
The mere threat of a German naval challenge saw a hugely expensive (and hugely popular) program of ship-building even at a time when the Liberal government desperately preferred to spend the money on social reforms instead. But the Navy simply mattered more- to the government, to Parliament and to large swathes of the public.
Now, in our timeline the Grand Fleet's confrontation with the Germans at Jutland was a strategic victory, but the tactical loss was enough to start a back and forth blame game. The British public did not want a strategic victory; they wanted Trafalgar.
But what if, instead, the Grand Fleet is crippled? Not the worse for wear, not beaten but retreating in good order- unarguably defeated on the day. Three or four battleships gone, even more battlecruisers sunk, many others wounded.
What I'm interested in is not the military or even political ramifications would be. In fact, let's assume that somehow the Germans still lose the war. Perhaps the Americans enter early, perhaps the High Seas Fleet doesn't follow up quickly enough or has to retreat to port itself. Hand wave this, okay?
What I'm interested in is the cultural ramifications upon the British Empire of a defeat like this? Let's also assume, to widen the trauma, that the battlecruisers paid for by the Dominions are among those that go to the bottom of the North Sea.
So, what happens? Do we see a subset of war poetry about coastal towns denuded of their youth, to be endlessly studied in high schools across the globe? An explosion of public anger? How are things like the cult of Nelson affected?
This is also why I want to focus on some kind of Entente victory- instead of general trauma from defeat, I want to specifically focus on what happens if this key part of the national identity takes a good kicking.
This thread is for something different.
By the turn of the twentieth century the Royal Navy's cultural and political cachet was at an all time high; it was certainly far more prestigious than the British army, its great victory at Trafalgar was a minor holiday, and admirals like Charles Beresford were national celebrities despite having largely served in peace-time.
Britannia ruled the waves, and all that.
The mere threat of a German naval challenge saw a hugely expensive (and hugely popular) program of ship-building even at a time when the Liberal government desperately preferred to spend the money on social reforms instead. But the Navy simply mattered more- to the government, to Parliament and to large swathes of the public.
Now, in our timeline the Grand Fleet's confrontation with the Germans at Jutland was a strategic victory, but the tactical loss was enough to start a back and forth blame game. The British public did not want a strategic victory; they wanted Trafalgar.
But what if, instead, the Grand Fleet is crippled? Not the worse for wear, not beaten but retreating in good order- unarguably defeated on the day. Three or four battleships gone, even more battlecruisers sunk, many others wounded.
What I'm interested in is not the military or even political ramifications would be. In fact, let's assume that somehow the Germans still lose the war. Perhaps the Americans enter early, perhaps the High Seas Fleet doesn't follow up quickly enough or has to retreat to port itself. Hand wave this, okay?
What I'm interested in is the cultural ramifications upon the British Empire of a defeat like this? Let's also assume, to widen the trauma, that the battlecruisers paid for by the Dominions are among those that go to the bottom of the North Sea.
So, what happens? Do we see a subset of war poetry about coastal towns denuded of their youth, to be endlessly studied in high schools across the globe? An explosion of public anger? How are things like the cult of Nelson affected?
This is also why I want to focus on some kind of Entente victory- instead of general trauma from defeat, I want to specifically focus on what happens if this key part of the national identity takes a good kicking.
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