AHC/WI: "White", Romance and Berber speaking Catholic North Africa

[Albert the Singularity]

With a POD after the Reconquest of the Iberian peninsula by the Christian front, get North Africa (except Egypt and Southern Libya) to be mostly "White" Southern European, due to assimilation of the Iberian, French and Italian settlers mixing with the natives, and be Catholic, speaking Romance and Berber languages.

What effects would this have on the wider World? How would the later eras unfold?

 

[TheIO]

The effects on the wider world, from ~1500 onwards, aren't gonna be from the Maghreb being majority Christian. The effects are gonna be from the fact that the Mediterranean Christian states (Castille/Aragon, Portugal, France, Naples/Sicily, etc.) are putting in a lot of time, manpower, money, and effort into invading and holding the Maghreb in force, rather than the smattering of coastal forts they managed OTL before the mid-1800s. Of course, eventually owning it will be of material benefit to said states - but that's a second-order factor.

Who's doing the invading? Why do they believe it's worth doing? What are they not fighting over, or investing in as heavily, instead?

 

[Ricardolindo]

The effects on the wider world, from ~1500 onwards, aren't gonna be from the Maghreb being majority Christian. The effects are gonna be from the fact that the Mediterranean Christian states (Castille/Aragon, Portugal, France, Naples/Sicily, etc.) are putting in a lot of time, manpower, money, and effort into invading and holding the Maghreb in force, rather than the smattering of coastal forts they managed OTL before the mid-1800s. Of course, eventually owning it will be of material benefit to said states - but that's a second-order factor.

Who's doing the invading? Why do they believe it's worth doing? What are they not fighting over, or investing in as heavily, instead?

Avoid the Habsburgs inheriting Spain and Spain may succeed in conquering the Maghreb. They may simply decide to vassalize it, though.

 

[Albert the Singularity]

The effects on the wider world, from ~1500 onwards, aren't gonna be from the Maghreb being majority Christian. The effects are gonna be from the fact that the Mediterranean Christian states (Castille/Aragon, Portugal, France, Naples/Sicily, etc.) are putting in a lot of time, manpower, money, and effort into invading and holding the Maghreb in force, rather than the smattering of coastal forts they managed OTL before the mid-1800s. Of course, eventually owning it will be of material benefit to said states - but that's a second-order factor.

Who's doing the invading? Why do they believe it's worth doing? What are they not fighting over, or investing in as heavily, instead?

You are quite right. Such united Catholic Kingdoms, would almost equate the Roman Empire, though not same. However, due to the unevenness and diversity of landscape, there would be a fight among the Mediterranean Christian states, about who gets what. Like say, Kingdom of France demanding Carthage (the richest and the most hospitable region for settlers), but Spain disagrees with that claim, sparking off an internal war within the front.

 

[rfmcdonald]

Why would European monarchies, even powerful ones, want to commit to such an expensive scheme? Would they even be able to do it, considering their other threats and their other obligations?

 

[Gary Oswald]

Why would European monarchies, even powerful ones, want to commit to such an expensive scheme? Would they even be able to do it, considering their other threats and their other obligations?

There were very much voices in Spain and Portugal which wanted to continue the war of reconquest into the barbary countries with all the ethnic cleansing that implied.

It wasn't really possible or worth it, which is why they largely settled for controlling port towns and taking tribute instead but it was a thing discussed in Royal courts.

 

[TheIO]

There were very much voices in Spain and Portugal which wanted to continue the war of reconquest into the barbary countries with all the ethnic cleansing that implied.

It wasn't really possible or worth it, which is why they largely settled for controlling port towns and taking tribute instead but it was a thing discussed in Royal courts.

In which case the question is what could get those voices listened to without their plans immediately failing? Ricardolindo's suggested having Spain not get inherited by the Habsburgs & thus not being quite so heavily dragged into European matters, but that's a massive PoD by itself.

 

[Ricardolindo]

There were very much voices in Spain and Portugal which wanted to continue the war of reconquest into the barbary countries with all the ethnic cleansing that implied.

It wasn't really possible or worth it, which is why they largely settled for controlling port towns and taking tribute instead but it was a thing discussed in Royal courts.

Do you think it would have been possible had the Habsburgs never inherited Spain, which turned its attention to Europe?
As I said in a recent thread of mine, though, I think Spain could have simply decided to vassalize the Barbary states.

 

[iainbhx]

With a POD after the Reconquest of the Iberian peninsula by the Christian front, get North Africa (except Egypt and Southern Libya) to be mostly "White" Southern European, due to assimilation of the Iberian, French and Italian settlers mixing with the natives, and be Catholic, speaking Romance and Berber languages.

MODERATOR POST:

The moderators have once again received complaints that another thread you have started is very concerned with potentially positive changes being down to an increase in "whiteness" in the area concerned which seems to imply some form of white supremacy. Whilst there are interesting points of divergence here, we are very concerned about the phrasing and the implications that lie within. Whilst we were discussing this, a third thread has started on similar lines, which really do say the quiet part out loud. Normally, we would proceed to a kick, however, we've decided that we don't think this would stop you and therefore we are just going to proceed straight to the permanent ban.