Jane Waterbury
New member
Will a 1961-69 Republican presidency be any more successful in Vietnam or will it destroy Nixon like it destroyed LBJ?
While I can’t get into a more in-depth response right now, Nixon might be marginally more successful but in the end Vietnam would bring down any President who fully committed to winning it.Will a 1961-69 Republican presidency be any more successful in Vietnam or will it destroy Nixon like it destroyed LBJ?
I remember seeing you talk about this somewhere before, but in my own reading I haven’t found a lot about this. Can you go more in-depth?That said unlike Kennedy there's a considerably larger chance that he goes to war in Laos.
The Cliffnotes version is that Laos had been smoldering for a while but in 1960 the Thais and US supported an Anti-Communist Coup in the country that ironically claimed the title on the world stage of being the "Neutralists". But these guys sucked and spent most of 1960 falling apart hard and fast. On New Years Day 1961 North Vietnamese forces crossed the border, claiming to the world it was to protect themselves but really it was to support the Laotian Communists and to use the chaos to develop the Ho Chi Mihn Trail more. Not that crazy seeing how the rest of the Second Indochina War would go but at the time a rather shocking deal on the world stage.I remember seeing you talk about this somewhere before, but in my own reading I haven’t found a lot about this. Can you go more in-depth?
Maybe.So in a Nixon '61 timeline, it could be the Laos War instead? This also seems like it'd be easier to sell (unless and until a Tet equivalent hit) - "Why are we here?" "Because the Commies are invading this country, the brave Laosians have to be helped!"
Who would be Nixon's running mate?
Okay?funnily enough in french cabot means dog. Salete de cabot !! and in spanish el cabo means... penis.
so in 64 i guess Nixon's opponent"s would be either Lyndon Johnson OR H.H.h.
Nixon's firm personal distaste for those he viewed as "elites" and the fact that most of the candidates mentioned most likely turned the position down (Romney and Miller would've most likely accepted although I doubt Nixon would offer Romney given the whole mormonism thing, Smith is a maybe, and Goldwater and Rockefeller's mixture of ego and ambition would've prevented them from accepting) means that Nixon would turn to some less-prominent candidates - your Cottons and Judds, instead of your Rockefellers and Goldwaters. Ford is a probable candidate, given how he campaigned for the position in 1960 and would answer the call if there's an opening come 1964.
The only way Lodge would win in a landslide in '64 (assuming, of course, that Nixon's Administration was successful - which is a big ask) is if the Democrats nominate an absolute kook like Wayne Morse or if Humphrey is in full-blown left-liberal campaign mode. Johnson won his majority not on the memory of JFK (although that certainly was a big help), but on making himself the moderate candidate in comparison to Goldwater. Lodge isn't half the politician LBJ was, so I'm not sold that he'd be able to pull that off.
I wasn't trying to disparage Lodge, and assuming Nixon's term goes well I don't see why he can't win in 1964. I just don't think he would win a landslide, given the special circumstances of LBJ's victory in OTL - given that Nixon pivoted to the left in the OTL 1960 Election and the growing influence of the conservatives within the GOP, I'd find it unlikely that Nixon or Lodge would further risk alienating an increasingly crucial part of the GOP electorate.In addition, a Nixon elected in 1960 would have been at least somewhat moderate, and Lodge was definitely a moderate Republican, given that in OTL he did work with the Kennedy and Johnson administrations (albeit as a diplomat) and a Democratic Party / Humphrey trying to distinguish themselves from Nixon/Lodge might have pivoted to the left. Even if they didn't, Lodge would probably be at least somewhat popular with the American people (unless he did do something that ruined his reputation, which might have happened).
This has just reminded me that the excellent "All Along the Watchtower" by bloke whose username is numbers on the other place was never finished (IIRC) which makes me sad.
Last I recall he went on hiatus due to doing an MA.Never finished and then deleted along with all his other stuff IIRC. Bit strange.