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WI: Joe Kennedy Jr. Lives?

V

Vidal

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A few paths for us to go down in considering the lore that is Joe Kennedy, Jr. was meant to be the successful Kennedy. I think the AH community and the broader actual historical community have started to come around to the idea that Joe Kennedy Jr. was maybe not as well-suited for politics as his father came to envision after his son's death... A lot of the qualities that made Jack successful were missing in Junior, and before his death, Joe Jr. had established some hardline positions: Opposing FDR at the 1940 Convention, being staunchly isolationist...

Let's assume he skips the mission that tragically sealed his fate and instead returns home without incident. After the war, he is elected to Congress like his brother. Then what?

He's faced with running statewide in '52, and he has two options: Does he want Governor or Senator in 52?

1) Argument for Governor is that it would give him executive experience for the presidency (at the time this was more valuable than Senate for the most part) + it would allow him to avoid his more controversial politics (foreign policy) in favor of easy domestic oriented campaign that he's a shoo-in for. I also imagine him as more controlling/executive in temperament than Jack.

2) Argument for Senator is that it lets him play on the big stage; he's in Congress now already and while I figure he likes legislating a bit less than Jack, he definitely loves being in the seat of power. Also, his isolationism is the surest thing about his politics we know, and taking on THE internationalist in the Senate would certainly pique his interest.

My theory is this all hinged, really, on Dever's choice about either running for reelection, challenging Lodge, or retiring. Whatever JPK Jr wants, JPK Sr will make possible by coaxing Dever.

Personally, I think he can win Gov but not Senate (though I don't think he would question his ability to win either...)
 
I could see him winning either the governorship or the Senate seat. I know in most AH you usually see him follow Jack's path directly, winning the same Senate seat in the same year and then from there to higher positions, such as the running mate in '56, or the presidency in '56 or '60 or any other year. However, I agree with you that while he is far more likely to lose the Senate race to Lodge, he wouldn't share the assessment.

I think the most narratively interesting choice would be for him to take a go at Lodge and losing. Now out of a job and having lost a major race, he'll have to bounce back some other way. Assuming Herter still defeats Dever, the easiest path forward for Joe is to run against him in '54. His father's influence should be enough to assuage any concerns about his status as a loser. If he wins and manages to stay in office for a while, he's back on track for a rematch with Lodge or a run for the presidency no earlier than 1960, and things can develop from there in any number of directions.

But, if he were to lose this second race as well, things are starting to look down for Joe. And if Jack took up the House seat when Joe vacated it for his Senate run, things could start to get interesting. Joe Sr. will probably still focus on Joe Jr., but if Jack is more popular in Massachusetts and Washington, there could be trouble brewing. The divergence of politics between the brothers would also play into this. The most interesting scenario to me personally is one where a story is framed as "Joe Lives" but it turns into "Jack Wins" anyway, but a different Jack who ascended later than OTL, in defiance of his father's wishes, with an embittered older brother, and battle lines drawn within the family.
 
The argument for Governor makes more sense than the Senate -- I agree with your assumption that Joe is more likely to be elected a Governor than a Senator.

What do the other three Kennedy brothers' careers look like ITTL? My guess is that Jack probably sticks to being a journalist/writer -- he had aspirations for purchasing the Boston Globe and turning it into a world-class newspaper along the lines of the New York Times and the Post, perhaps he becomes an American Robert Maxwell, maybe a media mogul through his father's connections with Hollywood.

Bobby probably still goes into law, and eventually politics -- my guess he probably runs for Senator of Massachusetts sometime in the 60s.

Teddy, since Joe Jr. doesn't die ITTL, probably gets shipped off to fight in the Korean War -- as his father would be as averse to seeing one of his sons go off to war, and won't use his political connections to prevent Teddy from going overseas. Whether he lives or dies is up in the air.
 
Excelsior said:
But, if he were to lose this second race as well, things are starting to look down for Joe. And if Jack took up the House seat when Joe vacated it for his Senate run, things could start to get interesting. Joe Sr. will probably still focus on Joe Jr., but if Jack is more popular in Massachusetts and Washington, there could be trouble brewing. The divergence of politics between the brothers would also play into this. The most interesting scenario to me personally is one where a story is framed as "Joe Lives" but it turns into "Jack Wins" anyway, but a different Jack who ascended later than OTL, in defiance of his father's wishes, with an embittered older brother, and battle lines drawn within the family.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I go back and forth here. Part of me imagines Jack going in another direction, as @TheKennedyMachine imagines, but also there's plenty of reason to believe he would pursue a political career anyway. In no small part because of the ideological differences he had with his brother.
 
Vidal said:
Yeah. I go back and forth here. Part of me imagines Jack going in another direction, as @TheKennedyMachine imagines, but also there's plenty of reason to believe he would pursue a political career anyway. In no small part because of the ideological differences he had with his brother.
Click to expand...
It's always fun to imagine members of the Kennedys turning out differently or taking on careers vastly different from what we know about them. Out of all the political dynasties, they're probably the most interesting as to how flexible they are. They're almost shakespearean in a way.
 
Excelsior said:
But, if he were to lose this second race as well, things are starting to look down for Joe. And if Jack took up the House seat when Joe vacated it for his Senate run, things could start to get interesting. Joe Sr. will probably still focus on Joe Jr., but if Jack is more popular in Massachusetts and Washington, there could be trouble brewing. The divergence of politics between the brothers would also play into this. The most interesting scenario to me personally is one where a story is framed as "Joe Lives" but it turns into "Jack Wins" anyway, but a different Jack who ascended later than OTL, in defiance of his father's wishes, with an embittered older brother, and battle lines drawn within the family.
Click to expand...
It'd be interesting if this split widens enough that both Jack and Joe put their names in at the Convention in '60 or '64
 
Vidal said:
A few paths for us to go down in considering the lore that is Joe Kennedy, Jr. was meant to be the successful Kennedy. I think the AH community and the broader actual historical community have started to come around to the idea that Joe Kennedy Jr. was maybe not as well-suited for politics as his father came to envision after his son's death... A lot of the qualities that made Jack successful were missing in Junior, and before his death, Joe Jr. had established some hardline positions: Opposing FDR at the 1940 Convention, being staunchly isolationist...

Let's assume he skips the mission that tragically sealed his fate and instead returns home without incident. After the war, he is elected to Congress like his brother. Then what?

He's faced with running statewide in '52, and he has two options: Does he want Governor or Senator in 52?

1) Argument for Governor is that it would give him executive experience for the presidency (at the time this was more valuable than Senate for the most part) + it would allow him to avoid his more controversial politics (foreign policy) in favor of easy domestic oriented campaign that he's a shoo-in for. I also imagine him as more controlling/executive in temperament than Jack.

2) Argument for Senator is that it lets him play on the big stage; he's in Congress now already and while I figure he likes legislating a bit less than Jack, he definitely loves being in the seat of power. Also, his isolationism is the surest thing about his politics we know, and taking on THE internationalist in the Senate would certainly pique his interest.

My theory is this all hinged, really, on Dever's choice about either running for reelection, challenging Lodge, or retiring. Whatever JPK Jr wants, JPK Sr will make possible by coaxing Dever.

Personally, I think he can win Gov but not Senate (though I don't think he would question his ability to win either...)
Click to expand...
Was there a Gubernatorial election in Mass in 1952? There was in 1950.
 
Vidal said:
Yeah. I go back and forth here. Part of me imagines Jack going in another direction, as @TheKennedyMachine imagines, but also there's plenty of reason to believe he would pursue a political career anyway. In no small part because of the ideological differences he had with his brother.
Click to expand...
Anthology Alternate Kennedys. Had vision myself of all the brothers as President in succession- which I wouldn't regard as a good idea I wouldn't have voted for any of them.
 
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