WI: Catholic America

[lerk]

So Jewish America is apparently not plausible, so what about this for a non-Protestant America TL: Suppose an alternate series of events occur in England that has what was called Mary’s Dowry remain Catholic. It goes into the New World, colonizes much of the areas it did OTL, and eventually their North American colonies break free after a war preceded by political tension between the colonies and London (in order to not make this a total Protestant screw maybe one can make the French and Irish Protestant). How would Catholic America differ than Protestant America? How would this change history?

 

[frittering]

in order to not make this a total Protestant screw maybe one can make the...Irish Protestant

 

[Catalunya]

in order to not make this a total Protestant screw maybe one can make the French and Irish Protestant

Their Catholicism is one of the few things they have going for them. Don’t ruin the Irish.

 

[lerk]

Their Catholicism is one of the few things they have going for them. Don’t ruin the Irish.

It’s fun to think about.

 

[Roger II]

I've seen weird Flipped Religions proposals with the UK remaining Catholic and the Irish converting to protestantism, largely on the theory that this would save Gaelic.

 

[lerk]

I've seen weird Flipped Religions proposals with the UK remaining Catholic and the Irish converting to protestantism, largely on the theory that this would save Gaelic.

In that case it would add another layer to Irish-American history ITTL...

 

[Nyvis]

In that case it would add another layer to Irish-American history ITTL...

Complete flip, with minority Irish Protestants in the US? This is interesting because they're likely to clash with other immigrants who are more likely to be Catholic and thus have more natural pathway to integration. And of course Catholicism might also take a more official part of the alt-US, since unlike its mismatch of Protestant denominations, it could find itself united enough to act as a single political force.

What kind of Protestantism would the Irish adopt? Something very local? Or Calvinism maybe?

 

[gentleman biaggi]

>the irish become protestant

yeah idk if you know this but a lot of early “irish” americans fit this description

 

[napoleon IV]

>the irish become protestant

yeah idk if you know this but a lot of early “irish” americans fit this description

It's their most priceless heritage.

 

[lerk]

Does anyone have anything more to add to this? I'm genuinely interested in how a Catholic US would differ from a Protestant US but am not knowledgeable enough to add more. A Catholic British Empire facing off against a Protestant French one is a story in and of itself tbh.

 

[History Learner]

Does anyone have anything more to add to this? I'm genuinely interested in how a Catholic US would differ from a Protestant US but am not knowledgeable enough to add more. A Catholic British Empire facing off against a Protestant French one is a story in and of itself tbh.

For a recognizable U.S. as we know it, there are two ways in my opinion.

First is the Patriots conquer Canada in 1775. The addition of Quebecois Catholics from the start could do much to prevent the development of the stigma, particularly if Washington selects Charles Carroll as his VP later on, as was apparently considered in 1792 IOTL. This would get the U.S. at large used to such from the start, when things were still being defined and social norms stated in the Post-Revolution period. Later on, the U.S. could continue it's expansion and add Catholic Mexico and Central America to itself. Such, combined with Catholic immigration from Europe, could result in a majority Catholic America.

The second, and admittedly this is more a rip off Decades of Darkness, is something I've toyed with lately. The Russians achieve a decisive success at Berezina in late 1812 and the Napoleonic Wars are brought to a close by the Summer of 1813. Free of the European distraction, Britain is able to fight the war in North America to a clear victory with additional resources. New England is set up as an independent Federation, while the British take Michigan and Wisconsin, setting the border from thence on the 46th Parallel North to the Columbia River. This strips off a lot of Protestants and OTL Protestant immigration; Illinois, Indiana and Missouri will become firm Slave States here. Over the rest of the 19th Century, a more Southern-dominated U.S. is aggressive and expansionist, annexing Mexico over the course of the 1830s and 1840s. With fewer Protestants and a lot more Catholics, same outcome as earlier; probably sufficient to get a majority here.

 

[lerk]

For a recognizable U.S. as we know it, there are two ways in my opinion.

First is the Patriots conquer Canada in 1775. The addition of Quebecois Catholics from the start could do much to prevent the development of the stigma, particularly if Washington selects Charles Carroll as his VP later on, as was apparently considered in 1792 IOTL. This would get the U.S. at large used to such from the start, when things were still being defined and social norms stated in the Post-Revolution period. Later on, the U.S. could continue it's expansion and add Catholic Mexico and Central America to itself. Such, combined with Catholic immigration from Europe, could result in a majority Catholic America.

The second, and admittedly this is more a rip off Decades of Darkness, is something I've toyed with lately. The Russians achieve a decisive success at Berezina in late 1812 and the Napoleonic Wars are brought to a close by the Summer of 1813. Free of the European distraction, Britain is able to fight the war in North America to a clear victory with additional resources. New England is set up as an independent Federation, while the British take Michigan and Wisconsin, setting the border from thence on the 46th Parallel North to the Columbia River. This strips off a lot of Protestants and OTL Protestant immigration; Illinois, Indiana and Missouri will become firm Slave States here. Over the rest of the 19th Century, a more Southern-dominated U.S. is aggressive and expansionist, annexing Mexico over the course of the 1830s and 1840s. With fewer Protestants and a lot more Catholics, same outcome as earlier; probably sufficient to get a majority here.

Interesting scenarios but I was more interested in what would've happened had England/Great Britain as a whole remained Catholic, and how that would've impacted America's development assuming they colonized the same North American territories as OTL. If you believe that this makes America unrecognizable then please tell me how.