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Trumps besides Trump

SpudNutimus

I make maps and things.
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Many people wish to believe that the presidency of Donald John Trump Jr. was an unforeseeable fluke, a happenstance conjunction of all the worst possible circumstances in American politics coming together to cause an unprecedented whirlwind of chaos at the highest levels of government within the world's foremost geopolitical power (for the time being). However, while the Trump years may very well have been chaotic and avoidable, I don't believe that the rise of the most talked-about manchild in the free world was down to dumb luck. The Republican Party and the right-wing end of the US political spectrum have arguably been building towards this, in some form or another, through nearly fifty years of escalating rhetoric, increasingly overt dogwhistling, and radicalization.

That said, under different circumstances it may well have not been the Orange Man we all know and despise. Someone else could very well have become the standard-bearer of American right-wing populism of the 21st century, and I feel there is an underabundance of talk about who else it could have been here. So with all that said: who are your favorite not-Trumps? Who else do you think could have become the face of nationalistic insanity in the US of A?

I'll start off by giving two relatively unorthodox opinions: I think Ted Cruz would fail to fill this niche spectacularly, and that Ben Carson might have just succeeded under the right circumstances. The former has the right mindset but also the populist charisma of a wet blanket, while I think the latter's scariness is often underestimated in terms of his possible appeal to Christian nationalists and religious types in the US. I could very well see an alternate timeline's Carsonism replacing our QAnon and 4chan types with the insane ramblings of Facebook bible study groups and young Earth creationists as its Plymouth Rock of delusional conspiracy theories.
 
Ben Carson wouldn't have been able to replace Trump because, to put it bluntly, he's not white. The Christian white-nationalist element of the GOP will gladly use black figures when it suits them but they're not going to put someone who isn't white into the top spot. He also doesn't have anything resembling charisma or any fire in his public performances- soporific is about the nicest thing anyone can say about Ben Carson.

I think you have it backwards- Ted Cruz did as well as he did because he was able to tap into the same energies as Trump did, his campaign failed because the Party was so late to accept him as a lesser evil- the fact that he was the runner-up should have made it clear that the Party had been remade. I think you keep Trump lazier than IOTL (a tall order) and Cruz has a solid chance at winning the primary and carrying a very similar brand of politics in to the White House. He'll probably do so with less outrageous and venal acts and probably with more intention, but I think you get a lot of the elements to be about the same, up until refusing to concede an election because that really was a line I don't think anyone but a complete outsider like Trump would cross- although him crossing it has let everyone else in the GOP follow him in it.
 
Spiro Agnew would have very easily been a 1970’s more openly racist version of Trump if he became Prez somehow,mostly likely after Nixon and Brezhnev had a car crash like they nearly did OTL in 1973.

I feel like Agnew is too much of a career politician to fit the exact same mold? He didn't have a very long career, but he didn't jump straight into a presidential run and wouldn't be able to campaign as an outsider.
 
I feel like Agnew is too much of a career politician to fit the exact same mold? He didn't have a very long career, but he didn't jump straight into a presidential run and wouldn't be able to campaign as an outsider.
More in the sense of rhetoric and racism.
 
I’ve said it before, but one of the main reasons why Trump got the nomination in the first place is because of just how well known he is globally. I’ve seen Trump references in Turkish cinema in the late-00s, and even before that in French movies.

Also, so much of the American right’s identity over the past decade has been built around ‘pissing the libs’ off before anything else. That’s why if Trump wasn’t there, you’d get a more conventional name like Scott Walker or Ted Cruz instead. I don’t know any other right-wing non-politician who was as hated by the American centre and left as Donald Trump.
 
Imo the most significant, unique thing about Trump's presidency was his elevation of electoral fraud conspiracy theories from an occasional dogwhistle to a very loud article of faith. Everything else was just the direction of travel for the GOP. So in terms of historical impact rather than just vibes / aesthetics the best substitute would be somebody like Kris Kobach who was already interested in openly rigging elections.

I’ve said it before, but one of the main reasons why Trump got the nomination in the first place is because of just how well known he is globally. I’ve seen Trump references in Turkish cinema in the late-00s, and even before that in French movies.

Literally every green or anti-capitalist text I've read from the late 80s / early 90s brings up his name as a metaphor for corporate greed!
 
Trump was considered the moderate choice by many Republicans. He reflected a preexisting preference to shift away from certain fiscal and foreign policy conservatism and towards more moderate positions on spending and entitlements, crossed with wanting more focus on secular-cultural stuff like taking the knee at football games, immigration, and certain 'way of life' issues which are hard to define. The most pro-Trump group in the 2016 primary was self-described Christians who didn't go to church, with the actual church attenders usually preferring Cruz.

Cruz did culture warring, but not in the same secular sense. Cruz ultimately was just a really obnoxious version of a generic Republican who was conservative on all of the issues.

Without Trump, a lot of Trump's base would have split between a bunch of different people. Walker, Cruz, and Kasich come to mind. Find somebody else willing to moderate on fiscal policy but double down on secular culture war issues like guns, standing for the flag, police, immigration, deindustrialization (which while viewed as an economic issue also has had cultural effects on a lot of men's sense of identity), plus saying various offensive statements about various groups that people were thinking but afraid to say and you'll get a Trump.
 
Kelsey Grammar - Celeb, Likes Women, Has base that thinks he's quite smart, Home somewhat New York, Right Wing Politics

He needs some time to really expose and propagate his right-wing pundit persona, and that might interfere with his other Hollywood/TV projects. Because, he's needs to wash away the persnickety patrician-ness of the Frasier character.

Then again, from his region accent (NY), choice of words that sound more like Jewish grandmother than a good ole boy (big beautiful wall), place and other cultural cues indicating he has nothing in common culturally with evangelical Protestant America or white working class rural America, maybe Trump showed all you need to do is show you hate the right people (like JD Vance says) and get a reaction out of them.
 
Reagan lowered the corporate tax from 46% to 34% (12% lower).
Trump lowered it from 35% to 21% (14% lower).

He ran on a very conservative fiscal policy in terms of tax cuts, he's very much a traditional Reagan Republican in that way, There's this idea that because he stopped banging on about the deficit he was some break from fiscal conservativism but honestly I think that's mostly just a thing you only talk about while in opposition.

Trump ran on anti-immigration, tax cuts, and getting anti-abortion judges in the supreme court. I'm with @BClick on this, the significant shift was not in policy but on democratic norms.

And it's difficult to think of anyone who wasn't a complete outsider who'd run on election fraud and any election that doesn't elect me is illegitimate to the same extent. It's only an outsider who would punch a hole in the boat like that.
 
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