This was true in his first unsuccessful campaign for governor as well. As a judge, Wallace was unusually respectful of Black attorneys who argued before him, and that helped secure him the endorsement of the NAACP in his very first run for governor.
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Things that look like alternate history but aren't
- Thread starter Meadow
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LSCatilina
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- Sandford, Gloucestershire
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Love this. The enclave of Cheltenham within something like the Margraviate of the Lower Severn Valley is my fave bit (not related to the Bishopric of Gloucester)
NotDavidSoslan
Well-known member
This entire person:
Scepan Mali
Scepan Mali
Why is everyone so desperate to be Tsar Peter III?
LSCatilina
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"All the cool kids were doing it"
NotDavidSoslan
Well-known member
Conditions in Oman as of 1970 could be something from a TL where the industrial revolution did not happen.
"Said became more reclusive from his people and country. In 1965, after making concessions to export oil with Iraq, Iran and Britain, he did little to improve the life of his people. The benefits of this deal would not come to fruition until his was deposed in 1970 in a palace coup.
In 1965, the province of Dhofar revolted, this time with the support of the People's Republic of China and some of the nationalist Arab states, followed by an assassination attempt in 1966. It had a marked effect on Said, causing him to become even more erratic in governing the country. It was forbidden to smoke in public, to play football, to wear sunglasses or to speak to anyone for more than 15 minutes. No one was safe from the sultan's paranoia, not even his own son, Qaboos, who was kept under virtual house arrest at Al Hosn Palace in Salalah.
Before he was overthrown in 1970, because of his backwards policies, Oman had an under 5 mortality rate of around 25%. Trachoma, venereal disease and malnutrition were widespread. There were only three schools, the literacy rate was 5%, and there were only 10 kilometres (6 mi) of paved roads."
"After slavery had been abolished in Bahrain in 1937, in Kuwait in 1949 and in Saudi Arabia in 1962, it still flourished in Oman. By this time, the Sultan himself reportedly owned around 500 slaves, an estimated 150 of whom were women, who were kept at his palace at Salalah; a number of his male slaves were rumoured at the time to have been physically deformed due to abuse.
Sultan Said bin Taimur reportedly owned around 500 slaves, descendants of enslaved people trafficked from Africa, which were "kept tightly isolated from the rest of the population, and banned from marrying or learning to read or write without his permission". After a slave began to evade control, he passed a law under which all people of African descent were legally classed as slaves. Reportedly, "kept many of his slaves locked up there and used to enjoy beating them", and when he lived in Muscat during the 1950s, he "used to make his slaves swim in the water underneath his balcony and then amuse himself by shooting at fish around them".
A correspondent who visited Salalah after Sultan Said's removal in 1970 reported:
"Among 12 slaves presented to foreign journalists some had been forced, under pain of beating, not to speak. As a result they had become mutes. Others stood with their heads bowed and eyes fixed on the ground, their necks now paralysed. The slightest glance sideways resulted in a severe beating or imprisonment. Others had incurred physical deformity from similar cruelty. Said was also found to have 150 women locked away in his palace and it was known by some of his British aides that he had been assaulting young girls".
"Said became more reclusive from his people and country. In 1965, after making concessions to export oil with Iraq, Iran and Britain, he did little to improve the life of his people. The benefits of this deal would not come to fruition until his was deposed in 1970 in a palace coup.
In 1965, the province of Dhofar revolted, this time with the support of the People's Republic of China and some of the nationalist Arab states, followed by an assassination attempt in 1966. It had a marked effect on Said, causing him to become even more erratic in governing the country. It was forbidden to smoke in public, to play football, to wear sunglasses or to speak to anyone for more than 15 minutes. No one was safe from the sultan's paranoia, not even his own son, Qaboos, who was kept under virtual house arrest at Al Hosn Palace in Salalah.
Before he was overthrown in 1970, because of his backwards policies, Oman had an under 5 mortality rate of around 25%. Trachoma, venereal disease and malnutrition were widespread. There were only three schools, the literacy rate was 5%, and there were only 10 kilometres (6 mi) of paved roads."
"After slavery had been abolished in Bahrain in 1937, in Kuwait in 1949 and in Saudi Arabia in 1962, it still flourished in Oman. By this time, the Sultan himself reportedly owned around 500 slaves, an estimated 150 of whom were women, who were kept at his palace at Salalah; a number of his male slaves were rumoured at the time to have been physically deformed due to abuse.
Sultan Said bin Taimur reportedly owned around 500 slaves, descendants of enslaved people trafficked from Africa, which were "kept tightly isolated from the rest of the population, and banned from marrying or learning to read or write without his permission". After a slave began to evade control, he passed a law under which all people of African descent were legally classed as slaves. Reportedly, "kept many of his slaves locked up there and used to enjoy beating them", and when he lived in Muscat during the 1950s, he "used to make his slaves swim in the water underneath his balcony and then amuse himself by shooting at fish around them".
A correspondent who visited Salalah after Sultan Said's removal in 1970 reported:
"Among 12 slaves presented to foreign journalists some had been forced, under pain of beating, not to speak. As a result they had become mutes. Others stood with their heads bowed and eyes fixed on the ground, their necks now paralysed. The slightest glance sideways resulted in a severe beating or imprisonment. Others had incurred physical deformity from similar cruelty. Said was also found to have 150 women locked away in his palace and it was known by some of his British aides that he had been assaulting young girls".
A couple of recent discoveries involving historical American culture.
I grew up with my dad and others of that generation quoting songs where I had no real perception of how old they were, so it was a bit of a surprise to me to find that "The Daring Young Man on the Flying Trapeze" is from 1867. It was also referenced I recall in the Last of the Summer Wine episode "That's Not Captain Zero" which broadcast in 1990, so it definitely had staying power (helped by appearing in films, an endlessly repeated Popeye cartoon and the like). Anyway, the original was inspired by the legendary French acrobat Jules Léotard, who gave his name to the eponymous garment. The reason I bring it up here is that the lyrics include that the performer is "Tall, big and handsome, as well made as Chang" - which is almost certainly a reference to contemporary celebrities Chang and Eng Bunker, the original 'Siamese Twins'. It does definitely make one re-evaluate one's historical perception when a song from straight after the Amerian Civil War is namedropping celebrities with self-evidently Asian names.
Speaking of the American Civil War, another, rather more negative, example I came across is this:
It's that collision of the twee kiddie term 'Littlest', which I associate from a much later era, and Shirley Temple who's still recognisably name-checked as a child star and part of the narrative of frequently-referenced film history, with the blatant Confederate romanticist/apologist narrative of the early 20th century. (The film is from 1935). It almost makes it look like a deliberate piece of AH art to depict a Confederate victory dystopia.
I grew up with my dad and others of that generation quoting songs where I had no real perception of how old they were, so it was a bit of a surprise to me to find that "The Daring Young Man on the Flying Trapeze" is from 1867. It was also referenced I recall in the Last of the Summer Wine episode "That's Not Captain Zero" which broadcast in 1990, so it definitely had staying power (helped by appearing in films, an endlessly repeated Popeye cartoon and the like). Anyway, the original was inspired by the legendary French acrobat Jules Léotard, who gave his name to the eponymous garment. The reason I bring it up here is that the lyrics include that the performer is "Tall, big and handsome, as well made as Chang" - which is almost certainly a reference to contemporary celebrities Chang and Eng Bunker, the original 'Siamese Twins'. It does definitely make one re-evaluate one's historical perception when a song from straight after the Amerian Civil War is namedropping celebrities with self-evidently Asian names.
Speaking of the American Civil War, another, rather more negative, example I came across is this:
It's that collision of the twee kiddie term 'Littlest', which I associate from a much later era, and Shirley Temple who's still recognisably name-checked as a child star and part of the narrative of frequently-referenced film history, with the blatant Confederate romanticist/apologist narrative of the early 20th century. (The film is from 1935). It almost makes it look like a deliberate piece of AH art to depict a Confederate victory dystopia.
The writers at Marvel seem to be fond of that song, they've referenced it at least twice that I'm aware of.
Yeah, I think those writers were of the same generation and will have seen it referenced in the same places (film and the Popeye cartoon I mentioned, as the latter were repeated endlessly at one point).The writers at Marvel seem to be fond of that song, they've referenced it at least twice that I'm aware of.
The parody verison I've always heard is "I fly through the air with the greatest of ease / I land with a crash on my elbows and knees..." which itself gets a modified reference in the 1990 Last of the Summer Wine episode I mentioned so must significantly predate that.
NotDavidSoslan
Well-known member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_SoilihAnother historical figure that sounds fictional:
A military dictatorship taking power in Greece in 1967 would be called out as unrealistic if it didn't happen.
A military dictatorship taking power in Greece in 1967 would be called out as unrealistic if it didn't happen.
Why? Portugal, Spain?
NotDavidSoslan
Well-known member
Those took power in 1926 and 1939 respectively, and the Greek junta was an embarrassment for the Western Bloc when it existed. Also, from its Wikipedia page:
"In 1952, IDEA issued a manifesto stating that a dictatorship was the only possible solution to Greece's problems, which the Greek scholar Christos Kassimeris called an "astonishing" statement since the communists had been defeated in 1949, Greece was enjoying relative prosperity after living standards had collapsed in the 1940s, and Greek politics were stable. Kassimeris argued that since Papadopoulos played a large role in writing the 1952 manifesto, that it was his "personal ambition" rather than an objective fear of the Greek communists that was driving him forward because in no way could Greece be presented as being on the brink of a communist take-over in 1952."
There's nothing particularly unrealistic about a semi-democratic country becoming a dictatorship in the second half of the 20th century.
NotDavidSoslan
Well-known member
That's more an illustration of how Greece gets treated differently in the western public imagination because of the classical period, when it is certainly possible to make the argument (and it has been made) that 19th and 20th century history would have gone quite differently if the west had treated modern Greece as 'just another Balkan captive nation'.
It would probably need to be called Hellas or something to distinguish the two, like how Iran and Persia have very different connotations, and Iranian exiles in western countries often prefer to be called Persian to distinguish themselves from the current Iranian regime (even though 'Persian' was never an accurate description, that's like calling Britain England).
It would probably need to be called Hellas or something to distinguish the two, like how Iran and Persia have very different connotations, and Iranian exiles in western countries often prefer to be called Persian to distinguish themselves from the current Iranian regime (even though 'Persian' was never an accurate description, that's like calling Britain England).
Similar but different: I once remember reading something which pondered whether 1938 would have done differently if Britain and France been asked for help from the Bohemians, rather than the Czechoslovaks.
LSCatilina
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I feel it would have been worse, with Bohemians being still a common synonymous for "gypsy" or "tramp".
Quite possibly. Not knowing that synonym at the time, I myself wondered whether the sensible chaps in smoking rooms would have considered them to be arty-farty literary types, and therefore not worth helping.
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