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The SLP Flag Thread

Thande

Directly Elected Mayor of the Western Hemisphere
Published by SLP
My own question about it is, does the symbol refer to something specific?
Pablo Sanchez, the founder of Societism, was adamant his movement should have no flag or symbol on principle, but that lasted about as long as you'd expect. After his death they went for a plain black flag, but that's already used for other things so they needed a symbol. People argue about exactly where it comes from, with there being two main theories, possibly both are true:

- It's a variation of an Eye of Providence symbol (aka the supposed 'Illuminati' one on US banknotes) because that's a nigh-universal symbol found in many cultures and the ideology is about unifying humanity.*
- It's a reference to a puzzle demonstration that Societist adherents do to argue their ideology to ordinary people in streets or pubs - how can you make this pea or ball float above a glass using only three matchsticks or rods which aren't as long as the glass is wide...seemingly you can't, but if you interweave them in the triangle then they hold it aloft, i.e. an allegory for teamwork or unification. (This puzzle exists in OTL but there doesn't seem to be a consistent name for it, which is annoying when trying to find an illustrative image).

* I was inspired by how Tony Jones in "Monarchy World" has an alt-UN choose another symbol found in many different cultures as a unifying symbol...the swastika! (Which also works neatly as a WTF moment for the reader, of course, as I know you similarly used it with the Red Swastika organisation in Superpower China).
 

Sulemain

Brush NOT Benzo
Location
Coventry
Pablo Sanchez, the founder of Societism, was adamant his movement should have no flag or symbol on principle, but that lasted about as long as you'd expect. After his death they went for a plain black flag, but that's already used for other things so they needed a symbol. People argue about exactly where it comes from, with there being two main theories, possibly both are true:

- It's a variation of an Eye of Providence symbol (aka the supposed 'Illuminati' one on US banknotes) because that's a nigh-universal symbol found in many cultures and the ideology is about unifying humanity.*
- It's a reference to a puzzle demonstration that Societist adherents do to argue their ideology to ordinary people in streets or pubs - how can you make this pea or ball float above a glass using only three matchsticks or rods which aren't as long as the glass is wide...seemingly you can't, but if you interweave them in the triangle then they hold it aloft, i.e. an allegory for teamwork or unification. (This puzzle exists in OTL but there doesn't seem to be a consistent name for it, which is annoying when trying to find an illustrative image).

* I was inspired by how Tony Jones in "Monarchy World" has an alt-UN choose another symbol found in many different cultures as a unifying symbol...the swastika! (Which also works neatly as a WTF moment for the reader, of course, as I know you similarly used it with the Red Swastika organisation in Superpower China).
Did they have to make it look so evil though?
 

Thande

Directly Elected Mayor of the Western Hemisphere
Published by SLP
Did they have to make it look so evil though?
That's the eye of the beholder though - triskelion-type symbols in OTL often look dodgy now because they vaguely evoke the look of swastikas, but that doesn't mean everyone on the Isle of Man or Sardinia edit: Sicily wants to invade Russia.
 
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Sulemain

Brush NOT Benzo
Location
Coventry
That's the eye of the beholder though - triskelion-type symbols in OTL often look dodgy now because they vaguely evoke the look of swastikas, but that doesn't mean everyone on the Isle of Man or Sardinia wants to invade Russia.
You mean Sicily, right?
 

kratostatic

Neutral twin
Location
Anyers-upon-Senn, Island-of-France
Pronouns
He/him
That's the eye of the beholder though - triskelion-type symbols in OTL often look dodgy now because they vaguely evoke the look of swastikas, but that doesn't mean everyone on the Isle of Man or Sardinia edit: Sicily wants to invade Russia.
It should also be pointed out that "in universe" this collection of flags would have been compiled by people for who this flag evokes the same kind of emotional effect that a Swastika does for us, so arguably that's the emotional reaction you're going for.
 

Hendryk

Nothing ever ends
Published by SLP
Location
France
* I was inspired by how Tony Jones in "Monarchy World" has an alt-UN choose another symbol found in many different cultures as a unifying symbol...the swastika! (Which also works neatly as a WTF moment for the reader, of course, as I know you similarly used it with the Red Swastika organisation in Superpower China).
Quite, though I didn't even have to make it up, it's a real organization--it just happens to be more prominent in WIAF.
 

Kaiser Julius

Well-known member
It's always struck me that one of the noticeable things in AH is a distinct lack of boring tricolour flags. This is kind of a subset of the thing I like to raise about how AH flags are often 'unrealistically good' compared to OTL flags, which are often dashed off on the back of a fag packet by people in the middle of a battle who don't know the rules of vexillology. OTL has already given us many, many boring tricolour flags, both horizontal and vertical, but there are still plenty of colour combinations that haven't been explored (or perhaps only explored in obscure examples). Here's a few - feel free to recolour the image if you have ideas of your own. What might these be?

View attachment 5397
Third one is a flag of a Kingdom of France with a more egalitarian Estates General (Red (3E), White (2E) and Purple (1E).) Call it the Nouveau Regime.
 

Thande

Directly Elected Mayor of the Western Hemisphere
Published by SLP
With thanks to @Uhura's Mazda for research for this one, I'll be posting more flags from this scenario in time. Not fully decided on the design yet.

1627517191949.png

Fifth International New Zealand.

In this scenario the Fifth International is a socialist but anti-Soviet bloc (analogous to Maoism in OTL, but different) and is noted in its symbolism for rejecting the hammer and sickle but emphasising the red star, usually a large one with a design on it. The OTL NZ communists, fittingly, sided with Mao and they did use the fern and Southern Cross symbolism as Mazda found out from his research (although of course they did use the hammer and sickle). The slightly annoying part is that while the red stars fit neatly with my alt movement, they also make this flag look more like Generic Republican NZ. I did consider outlining the stars in yellow instead or doing yellow with a red outline, but I feel that would spoil the aesthetics somewhat. Thoughts?
 

Cydonius

De snelste reizemanier is de kaarslicht
Location
CCAA
Pronouns
he/him
With thanks to @Uhura's Mazda for research for this one, I'll be posting more flags from this scenario in time. Not fully decided on the design yet.

View attachment 41550

Fifth International New Zealand.

In this scenario the Fifth International is a socialist but anti-Soviet bloc (analogous to Maoism in OTL, but different) and is noted in its symbolism for rejecting the hammer and sickle but emphasising the red star, usually a large one with a design on it. The OTL NZ communists, fittingly, sided with Mao and they did use the fern and Southern Cross symbolism as Mazda found out from his research (although of course they did use the hammer and sickle). The slightly annoying part is that while the red stars fit neatly with my alt movement, they also make this flag look more like Generic Republican NZ. I did consider outlining the stars in yellow instead or doing yellow with a red outline, but I feel that would spoil the aesthetics somewhat. Thoughts?
I see what you mean about the overall feel. It very clearly says "New Zealand" to me, but feels neither communist nor socialist in any way. I think the black field plays a large part in that, socialist flags have so often had a red field in OTL that I think I expect either a red field or a large socialist symbol as an indispensible part of the design language.

I also tend to agree that yellow fimbration on the stars would feel discordant, and I really don't think a narrow red fimbration on a black field would work at all.

Had you tried adding an extra, larger red star fimbrated white at the base of the fern wreath, on top of the meeting point of the two stalks? The devices would need moving up a bit and scaling down a bit to keep things balanced, but it would give you a prominent red star in the design. A large red star fimbrated white in the canton would also scream communist/socialist to me, but I don't feel that the flag would work very well like that.
 

Thande

Directly Elected Mayor of the Western Hemisphere
Published by SLP
I see what you mean about the overall feel. It very clearly says "New Zealand" to me, but feels neither communist nor socialist in any way. I think the black field plays a large part in that, socialist flags have so often had a red field in OTL that I think I expect either a red field or a large socialist symbol as an indispensible part of the design language.

I also tend to agree that yellow fimbration on the stars would feel discordant, and I really don't think a narrow red fimbration on a black field would work at all.

Had you tried adding an extra, larger red star fimbrated white at the base of the fern wreath, on top of the meeting point of the two stalks? The devices would need moving up a bit and scaling down a bit to keep things balanced, but it would give you a prominent red star in the design. A large red star fimbrated white in the canton would also scream communist/socialist to me, but I don't feel that the flag would work very well like that.
I did think about something like that but wasn't sure where to put it. Base of the wreath might be a thought...

Another idea I've just had is to make the whole device smaller and move it up to the top left to be more Red Banner-ish, but then the Southern Cross might get too small to be legible.
 

Gary Oswald

Old and Foolish now
Sea Lion Press staff
Published by SLP
Pronouns
he/him
So re @Thande's point that AH flags are often unrealistically good because the people who make them care way more about aesthetics then real most flag makers do, I thought I might repost a flag I made a little while back.

Arguably the most criticised flags in the world are the Asofo style African flags from Ghana and the countries west, most notoriously displayed in the Liberian County flags below.



I have seen it said by online Africans that they make people uncomfortable because they don't fit the eurocentric flag model rather than because they're objectively bad. And I can see that, they do have a certain appeal in terms of symbolism, vivid imagery and simplicity, I unironically think the choice of a Liberian flag in the top corner of all of them is brilliant. But there's a sloppiness to it, a roughness that makes it feel very amateur and unlike AH flags.

So a little while ago, in another thread, I wanted to mimic those. The Mano River Union between Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea does not have an organisational flag but I wondered what would happen if the guys who made Liberian County Flags tried to design one.

And I came up with the one below.



Which I think is pleasingly unpretty as a design. I got good feedback when I posted it elsewhere on this forum, in that a bunch of people told me how awful it looked.
 

Thande

Directly Elected Mayor of the Western Hemisphere
Published by SLP
So re @Thande's point that AH flags are often unrealistically good because the people who make them care way more about aesthetics then real most flag makers do, I thought I might repost a flag I made a little while back.

Arguably the most criticised flags in the world are the Asofo style African flags from Ghana and the countries west, most notoriously displayed in the Liberian County flags below.



I have seen it said by online Africans that they make people uncomfortable because they don't fit the eurocentric flag model rather than because they're objectively bad. And I can see that, they do have a certain appeal in terms of symbolism, vivid imagery and simplicity, I unironically think the choice of a Liberian flag in the top corner of all of them is brilliant. But there's a sloppiness to it, a roughness that makes it feel very amateur and unlike AH flags.

So a little while ago, in another thread, I wanted to mimic those. The Mano River Union between Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea does not have an organisational flag but I wondered what would happen if the guys who made Liberian County Flags tried to design one.

And I came up with the one below.



Which I think is pleasingly unpretty as a design. I got good feedback when I posted it elsewhere on this forum, in that a bunch of people told me how awful it looked.
The thing about the Liberian county flags is that they look pretty much like a lot of American local and military flags used to look (which I suppose isn't surprising) but, whereas those are usually given as sanitised and cleaned-up versions in books or modern iterations, the same is not true of the Liberian ones. Also, people tend to selectively do the worst offenders for Liberia.

California is the obvious example here:



versus




Or, a bit more obscurely, as captured by stereotypical Hollywood villain with a British accent Banastre Tarleton, this military colour from the ARW vs how CRWFlags represents it:

1627572546921.png

This begs the question, someone who understands the dark majiks of vector images should try rendering the Liberian county flags in a similar cleaned-up way just to see what they'd look like.

I do think the flag in the canton is one of those things that's paradoxically too neat to usually see in real life - I quite like Brazil's approach of just passing around rejected national flags to its states.
 
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