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Space Exploration WIs

U

Usili

Testing Is Underway
This was inspired a bit from Coiler's Auto Industry WIs thread, as a general thread in which PoDs or WIs relating to space exploration could be posted, discussed, and talked about.

As an initial opening thing to perhaps talk about, what if the Soviets had managed to achieve a manned lunar flyby prior to that of Apollo 8 being flown (either as the original planned flight of a manned orbit around the moon or say the LM is somehow a bit ahead of schedule and going with the original plan of being flown as the first CSM-LM test in Low Earth Orbit). What might be the resulting effects from the Soviets having managed to achieve it? A potential for the Soviets to continue pushing with development of the N1 and landing on the moon and an extension of the Apollo Program? Something else?
 
I wonder if the USSR can get so far ahead that the USA is willing to do some sort of 'Co-Opt' Space Program for Humanity that would save face?
 
I'd be interested in how far you can push the space race if you keep things close. So say the Russians do an Apollo 8 analogue first, but the US just beat them to a manned landing. Would someone then decide they need to build a moon base? Or would they go to Mars?
 
I'm not really interested by pre-Apollo 11 PODs. I like Apollo as it stood. The really amazing thing is the scope of the Soviet lunar programs. they had
- robotic lunar sample return
- lunar rovers (Lunokhod)
---
- Chelomei plans: LK-1, UR-700, LK-700 (funded at low level)
- L1 Zond
- L3 single man lander
- L3M much improved system (1970 - 1976)

The L3M is one hell of a lost opportunity. to make a long story short: the Soviets hated the shuttle and Buran should never have happened. They badly wanted a lunar base with an improved L3, the L3M. By 1972 they had the program funded and under way.

http://www.astronautix.com/l/l3m.html
 
In my varied TLs I've toyed (or tried to) with the ESRO / ELDO / ESA space program, but every time, I found it BORING. Too few money, no manned flight, nothing before Giotto in '86.
...
then STS-200 come (that was three years ago, 2015) and damn it, he made Europe space program so hot and sexy. And he did that with a POD after WWII, which is one hell of an achievement.
 
Archibald said:
In my varied TLs I've toyed (or tried to) with the ESRO / ELDO / ESA space program, but every time, I found it BORING. Too few money, no manned flight, nothing before Giotto in '86.
...
then STS-200 come (that was three years ago, 2015) and damn it, he made Europe space program so hot and sexy. And he did that with a POD after WWII, which is one hell of an achievement.
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Did you ever heard of the Terran Trade Authority books by Stewart Cowley, tried once to make a timeline based on that book, can only say as a young boy i could not get enough looking at the spaceship drawn in those books.
 
mowque said:
I wonder if the USSR can get so far ahead that the USA is willing to do some sort of 'Co-Opt' Space Program for Humanity that would save face?
Click to expand...

I kind of don't think there necessarily might've been a way for the USSR to get so far ahead of the USA that it would've led to that? Could be mistaken, but I kind of feel it as a gut feeling type thing?
Lemon flavoured said:
I'd be interested in how far you can push the space race if you keep things close. So say the Russians do an Apollo 8 analogue first, but the US just beat them to a manned landing. Would someone then decide they need to build a moon base? Or would they go to Mars?
Click to expand...
Probably something akin to more longer-duration stays on the moon for what I'd imagine as 'pushing' the space race being? So like, as Archibald said, something akin to the L3M for the Soviets and the Apollo Logistics Support System/MOLAB for the Americans (so between two weeks to four week stays for both the US and the USSR I'd imagine as the 'farthest' it reach?)
 
A manned lunar base was certainly doable in the 80's - the Soviet had the DLB concept which was extremely detailed and quite well thought.

http://www.astronautix.com/d/dlblunarbase.html

As for NASA, best of the best was Lunar Exploration Systems for Apollo (LESA).

https://www.wired.com/2013/01/the-proper-course-for-lunar-exploration-1965/

A mix of LESA and DLB would make one hell of a lunar base. Still it would be better if buried inside the Marius Hills lava tube, and this could be done if Dave Scott picked Marius over Hadley for Apollo 15. Or if Apollo 18 got Marius Hills at its landing site.
 
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I have also wonder, what if China did not have the culture revolution, how far would their space program be in present day.
 
Well, they started Shuguang, a Gemini-look-alike two man spaceship, as early as 1966. First planned flight: 1973. Of course such was the chaos and misery, it never happened (most detailed source - here > http://sinodefence.com/shuguang-project-714/ )

More surprisingly, China was the third country in the world to recover an unmanned capsule, FSW, as early as 1975. It could have carried one astronaut into space and was mostly unrelated to Shuguang.
 
Archibald said:
Well, they started Shuguang, a Gemini-look-alike two man spaceship, as early as 1966. First planned flight: 1973. Of course such was the chaos and misery, it never happened (most detailed source - here > http://sinodefence.com/shuguang-project-714/ )

More surprisingly, China was the third country in the world to recover an unmanned capsule, FSW, as early as 1975. It could have carried one astronaut into space and was mostly unrelated to Shuguang.
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That why it would be neat to see a Chinese space TL, second by a British space TL, an no i am not speaking about Dan Dare ore the Ministry of Space timelines.
 
It was very good ! those days I have some fun with the chinese manned space program and Shuguang, in a rather different way.

See this thread
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37748.0

Everybody knows that China bought a Soyuz licence from Russia in 1992 and Shenzhou was the result. The funny thing is that wenty years before, the Chinese very nearly got Soyuz (and Zond) through somewhat illegal means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_7K-L1

Back then Soyuz and Proton rockets were so unreliable, some Zonds and Soyuz very nearly landed in China (!) at a time when the two countries were at the brink of nuclear war. Look at where Baikonur is: the Soviets usually launched above their territory, but failing rockets sometimes brought their payload in Xinjiang or Harbin, or in Mongolia !

Imagine if the Chinese reverse-engineered a Zond. It was part a Soyuz, and part a cislunar ship.

in a nutshell: subverting the "Shenzhou-is-China-carbon-copy-of-Soyuz" trope, and saving the chinese twenty years :cool: plus all the money send to the Russian to pay for the licence.
 
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