• Hi Guest!

    The costs of running this forum are covered by Sea Lion Press. If you'd like to help support the company and the forum, visit patreon.com/sealionpress

Russia continues in the 2008 Russo-Georgian War

Ricardolindo

Well-known member
Location
Portugal
What if Russia had continued in the 2008 Russo-Georgian War, captured Tbilisi and overthrown Mikheil Saakashvili? Who would Russia have installed as puppet President of Georgia in his place? How would the international community have reacted?
 
As my username implies, I have a strong interest in Georgian history.
Russia would install an obscure politician that likely joined Georgian Dream as a puppet leader.
The international community, especially the West, would strongly condemn this, albeit less than the 2022 invasion.
 
It’s been a while since I looked at the war, but IIRC Russia was in a position to take the remainder of the country and impose a puppet regime. That said, there WAS a great deal of overestimation of Russia’s combat power – as we saw in Ukraine – and it is at least possible that the Russian offensive would be slower, and more awkward, than people expected at the time. Regardless, Georgia is much smaller than Ukraine and much more isolated – I don’t think the Russians could lose, at least unless something goes REALLY wrong, or even get bogged down.

They might, however, learn they’re not as good as they think before they get into a much bigger war. IIRC, Putin’s plan in 2022 made sense based on what they thought they knew at the time; they just ‘knew’ things that weren’t so. Or they might get overconfident and pick on a much bigger target in 2009-14.

This would be a lot harder for the international community to tolerate. On the other hand, there wouldn’t be much that could be done about it. Refusing to recognise the puppet government would be about as far as they could go, at least at first, and it would be harder to sanction Russia when the US needs Russian help in Central Asia. That said, this wouldn’t be a mere ‘border dispute;’ I’d expect Ukraine and Eastern Europe to get a lot more serious about their defence a great deal quicker, as well as Turkey and the other nations in the region.

In the short term, Putin might get away with it, at the cost of making further conquests (and economic subversion) a great deal harder.

Chris
 
What if Russia had continued in the 2008 Russo-Georgian War, captured Tbilisi and overthrown Mikheil Saakashvili? Who would Russia have installed as puppet President of Georgia in his place? How would the international community have reacted?

Would Russia like Russia is good is, hold a referendum for the people of Georgia to decide if they want to become part of Russia and then get a 90 % of the vote saying they want to join Russia, because the alternative is a Pro-Russian government facing a Rose Revolution 2.0 in the future.
 
Chris's probably right: Putin wins (c'mon Prez Medvedev we all know the truth), nothing much can be done, and the price is everyone going "oh no Putin is not manageable" years earlier. And that would be bad longterm for Russia if people are arming up and downgrading trade. Big question is how the Russians view it, because elections at that point hadn't IIRC got to the point of being an obvious farce, if enough Russians thought "why did we do the whole of Georgia? I don't like the way things have gone after we did that", could you get a stronger opposition? (I assume Putin and his boys still win the next few votes)
 
I had the impression that Obama’s remarks to Mitt Romney - "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back, because, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years" - were a bit earlier than 2010, when he wrote those words, or 2012, when Obama use them to undermine Mitt Romney’s campaign. In hindsight, Obama put his foot in it; Russia would take chunks of Ukraine during Obama’s second term in office, and then go on to attempt to seize the rest of Ukraine after Biden took office. Romney was right, at least to a very great extent.

More seriously, the Russian Georgian war was fought in August 2008. It’s at least possible that a more successful war would turn Obama into an anti-Russian hawk, or grant victory to John McCain in the November 2008 US election. This could have interesting knock-on effects. For one, Obama’s decision to drawdown US combat forces in Iraq severely weakened America’s position when it came to steering the course of events, and allowed reactionary forces to take control and eventually trigger off the rise of Islamic State. If the president in office is more sensible, a stronger American presence might cement the gains of the surge and result in a stronger and more stable Iraq.

Regardless of that, there would be no excuse for Putin taking a whole country. Everyone along the border with Russia, or feared Russian strength, would start rearming. The Germans rush to make use of Russian natural gas, for example, would probably be short-circuited; I’d expect Ukraine to make a play for NATO and EU membership before Russia could turn its attention to them. I don’t know if the Germans could bolster their military to any great extent at that point, but it would be much harder for them to become dependent on Russia. (Although it was clearly unwise in OTL, so I’m unsure).

Another possibility is that Ukraine would sell out for the best it could get. If Russia appears much stronger, they might decide there is no hope of victory and accept some degree of subordination within the Russian Federation. If that happened, Russian troops would suddenly be on the Polish border, a serious threat to NATO. How would America and Europe respond to that?

The Russians would have to be insane to risk striking Poland, although they would want to do it. A formidable Polish Army, with or without NATO/US support, would be a clear threat to Russian interests. Nations don’t like constraints. Would Putin gamble he could invade and crush Poland before the US could intervene? It seems unlikely, but so did his gamble in Ukraine. The United States would still have most of its easy-deployable military forces in the Middle East, and the Europeans had cut their armies to the bone. Putin might just think he could get away with it.

Lots of interesting (and horrific) ways this could go.

Chris
 
I had the impression that Obama’s remarks to Mitt Romney - "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back, because, the Cold War’s been over for 20 years" - were a bit earlier than 2010, when he wrote those words, or 2012, when Obama use them to undermine Mitt Romney’s campaign. In hindsight, Obama put his foot in it; Russia would take chunks of Ukraine during Obama’s second term in office, and then go on to attempt to seize the rest of Ukraine after Biden took office. Romney was right, at least to a very great extent.

More seriously, the Russian Georgian war was fought in August 2008. It’s at least possible that a more successful war would turn Obama into an anti-Russian hawk, or grant victory to John McCain in the November 2008 US election. This could have interesting knock-on effects. For one, Obama’s decision to drawdown US combat forces in Iraq severely weakened America’s position when it came to steering the course of events, and allowed reactionary forces to take control and eventually trigger off the rise of Islamic State. If the president in office is more sensible, a stronger American presence might cement the gains of the surge and result in a stronger and more stable Iraq.

Regardless of that, there would be no excuse for Putin taking a whole country. Everyone along the border with Russia, or feared Russian strength, would start rearming. The Germans rush to make use of Russian natural gas, for example, would probably be short-circuited; I’d expect Ukraine to make a play for NATO and EU membership before Russia could turn its attention to them. I don’t know if the Germans could bolster their military to any great extent at that point, but it would be much harder for them to become dependent on Russia. (Although it was clearly unwise in OTL, so I’m unsure).

Another possibility is that Ukraine would sell out for the best it could get. If Russia appears much stronger, they might decide there is no hope of victory and accept some degree of subordination within the Russian Federation. If that happened, Russian troops would suddenly be on the Polish border, a serious threat to NATO. How would America and Europe respond to that?

The Russians would have to be insane to risk striking Poland, although they would want to do it. A formidable Polish Army, with or without NATO/US support, would be a clear threat to Russian interests. Nations don’t like constraints. Would Putin gamble he could invade and crush Poland before the US could intervene? It seems unlikely, but so did his gamble in Ukraine. The United States would still have most of its easy-deployable military forces in the Middle East, and the Europeans had cut their armies to the bone. Putin might just think he could get away with it.

Lots of interesting (and horrific) ways this could go.

Chris
There is no way that John McCain could have won in 2008 with the Great Recession.
 
Would Russia like Russia is good is, hold a referendum for the people of Georgia to decide if they want to become part of Russia and then get a 90 % of the vote saying they want to join Russia, because the alternative is a Pro-Russian government facing a Rose Revolution 2.0 in the future.
Georgia is not like Ukraine, it's not considered a lost Russian land. Russia would never have annexed Georgia in 2008.
 
Back
Top