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Queen Margaret?

M

MAC161

Well-known member
Published by SLP
Location
WI, USA
Some of my family have followed The Crown for a while, and like others on the Netflix thread here, came away sorely disappointed with the latest season. During a recent chat, one of them brought up an AH-worthy question, building on scenes apparently dealing with such a possibility in the series:

What if Princess Margaret had in fact become Queen?

Apart from the 1930s Abdication Crisis, I don't know much about the process by which the current monarch or next-in-line can step aside from their expected role, so I put the question about how that would work with Elizabeth (pre- or post-George VI's death) to anyone with a better grasp of the processes/politics involved. If Elizabeth dies early, before Charles and her other children are born (Back in the USSA had a passing mention of a similar scenario, with her dying of "London fog respiratory disease", albeit in 1968 when Charles is nearing adulthood), then Margaret would be sole heir; such an event happening thanks to the Great Smog of London, which The Crown also depicts, seems plausible on the surface.

What might a "Queen Margaret" monarchy be like, for her personally and in the greater British political/societal sense? Would Townsend and Armstrong-Jones still be in the picture, to name just two potential changes, and if so, how? If her father and sister both passed in 1952, how might that have affected the public/political perception of her, starting from her coronation? What might she encourage/support as Queen in terms of policies, attitudes and trends?

(Side note: I'm getting an idea for a story, or at least a scene, where she as Queen meets Thatcher as PM...with the title "The Two Maggies" :LOL:)

Any thoughts?
 
MAC161 said:
How would that happen?
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She had a pretty dysfunctional personal life, several scandalous relationships followed by a messy divorce and was well-known to be, by Royal standards at least, deeply irreverent and uninhibited. She was a very attractive and charismatic figure but not the stuff successful constitutional monarchs are made of. It's very hard to imagine the royal family ITTL maintaining anything like the popularity Elizabeth sustained.
 
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Callan said:
She had a pretty dysfunctional personal life, several scandalous relationships followed by a messy divorce and was well-known to be, by Royal standards at least, deeply irreverent and uninhibited. She was a very attractive and charismatic figure but not the stuff successful constitutional monarchs are made of. It's very hard to imagine the royal family ITTL maintaining anything like the popularity Elizabeth sustained.
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How much of that scandal would still happen if she became Queen along the lines of the "Smog" POD described above? At a guess, the Townsend affair would continue for a much briefer period, ultimately ending with her breaking it off, and Armstrong-Jones wouldn't be in the picture at all. With these two out of the running, who would've been the likeliest choice for Prince Consort (esp. with the almost certain huge pressure by Queen Mary--until 1953--the Queen Mother and the rest of the royal family/"firm" for her, the last living child of George VI, to marry "wisely")? There's so much rumor and gossip because of her status as "the world's most eligible bachelor girl" before 1960, I can't pin down any choice with certainty. And how much of her "deeply irreverent and uninhibited" personality would survive in the face of such pressure? Or might it manifest in other ways?
 
MAC161 said:
How much of that scandal would still happen if she became Queen along the lines of the "Smog" POD described above? At a guess, the Townsend affair would continue for a much briefer period, ultimately ending with her breaking it off, and Armstrong-Jones wouldn't be in the picture at all. With these two out of the running, who would've been the likeliest choice for Prince Consort (esp. with the almost certain huge pressure by Queen Mary--until 1953--the Queen Mother and the rest of the royal family/"firm" for her, the last living child of George VI, to marry "wisely")? There's so much rumor and gossip because of her status as "the world's most eligible bachelor girl" before 1960, I can't pin down any choice with certainty. And how much of her "deeply irreverent and uninhibited" personality would survive in the face of such pressure? Or might it manifest in other ways?
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The thing with AH about specific people is that their personal lives and personalities could've developed in almost any direction given the circumstances. It's hard to say what she would've been like after a significant period of time; but given how much her personality clashed with the expectations of a constitutional monarch, it's hard to imagine it would have developed positively. But again, at that point you're just writing a fictional character.

Who would she have married? It could've been a number of people. OTL, Princess Margaret had a string of relationships and dalliances with a great deal many men before settling on Armstrong-Jones, some more suitable prince consorts for a monarch than others. The different circumstances of her ITTL, as the monarch of a powerful country as opposed to the fundamentally irrelevant younger sibling of a monarch who already had two children, probably means she meets and is introduced to very different people.

But if she still even meets Townsend ITTL, I don't see why she would necessarily break it off earlier. IIRC she nearly married him anyway despite the huge pressure from her family and her elder sister; ITTL Queen Margaret herself is the final veto for a royal marriage. And consider that OTL only twenty years before the Townsend affair the monarch's desire to marry a partner who the government deemed unsuitable nearly destroyed the monarchy. It's hard not to imagine a similar standoff regarding Townsend or another, similar suitor, and if this standoff goes public it's hard to imagine the public of the 1950s and 1960s being on the side of an irreverent young woman known for her parties and frequent romantic entanglements. I don't think she would've lasted very long on the throne for that reason, and the chaos and scandal would've probably been deeply damaging to the monarchy in the long run. As Iain said, I think this PoD means a republic by 2020, probably by the year 2000.
 
Callan said:
But if she still even meets Townsend ITTL, I don't see why she would necessarily break it off earlier. IIRC she nearly married him anyway despite the huge pressure from her family and her elder sister; ITTL Queen Margaret herself is the final veto for a royal marriage. And consider that OTL only twenty years before the Townsend affair the monarch's desire to marry a partner who the government deemed unsuitable nearly destroyed the monarchy. It's hard not to imagine a similar standoff regarding Townsend or another, similar suitor, and if this standoff goes public it's hard to imagine the public of the 1950s and 1960s being on the side of an irreverent young woman known for her parties and frequent romantic entanglements. I don't think she would've lasted very long on the throne for that reason, and the chaos and scandal would've probably been deeply damaging to the monarchy in the long run. As Iain said, I think this PoD means a republic by 2020, probably by the year 2000.
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Would a Queen Margaret have pushed so hard for a marriage with Townsend, though, with the recent death of her father and sister, and the Abdication Crisis as a still-recent example of what happens when a British monarch goes against law and tradition? Whatever her personality, I have a hard time imagining her disregarding the latter, and the former in combination with it might just as well push her to make a public co-statement with Townsend like in OTL declaring they had no intention of marrying (which wouldn't necessarily preclude them marrying later, a la Charles and Camilla, if Townsend's ex-wife dies earlier ITTL) as to maybe seek solace by marrying him. If she did go forward with the marriage, however, and had to abdicate, who would have replaced her?

On the republic side, did Margaret have any OTL public or private opinions on this, esp. after the Townsend affair? And why do you suggest 2000 or 2020, for the dates when it might happen ITTL?

Callan said:
Who would she have married? It could've been a number of people.
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A quick wiki search suggests the following other likeliest (IMO) possibilities:

Dalkeith (which might be a "family pressure" choice, given her apparent OTL disinterest)
David Mountbatten (another "pressure" choice; not sure if there's a kinship issue, even with the royal penchant for cousin marriage)
Colin Tennant
"Sunny", Marquess of Blandford

"Billy" Wallace is probably out, given his status and intermittent health issues. If the POD were dual or pushed far enough back, King Mihai or Prince Nicholas of Yugoslavia would be interesting speculations, but ultimately not much more than that, I think.

Thoughts?
 
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While I agree it’s not likely, I rather like the idea that the scandals and parties continue and she becomes Edward VII come round again.

ITTL, we’re posting threads speculating that without the nation’s beloved party queen who embodied the post war age of liberalisation, a monarchy stuck with stick-in-the-mud Liz is in much worse shape.
 
‘Maggie and Maggie,’ the 2003 winner of the Academy Award for Best Picture, dir. Stephen Frears, wr. Peter Morgan.

A surprisingly sympathetic take on Thatcher, portraying the relationship between the PM and Monarch as one of class struggle. The respectable greengrocer’s daughter is shocked and appalled by the Queen’s louche habits, and in turn the Queen is disgusted by the puritanism of her PM’s government, which she regards as heartless and cold.

Do either of them understand the British people? Is the Queen aging disgracefully, or just an aging disgrace? And was it really advisable for Morgan to set the climax against the backdrop of Live Aid, just for the Freddy Mercury cameo?
 
SenatorChickpea said:
While I agree it’s not likely, I rather like the idea that the scandals and parties continue and she becomes Edward VII come round again.

ITTL, we’re posting threads speculating that without the nation’s beloved party queen who embodied the post war age of liberalisation, a monarchy stuck with stick-in-the-mud Liz is in much worse shape.
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And the new televised national sport is how many pint glasses can a bloke hang off his cock (cf Bindon, John).

Princess Margaret is the posh version of Beverley from Abigail's Party with a taste for younger blokes (cf Roddy Llewellyn). The British press might be able to hold it back for a decade or two, the overseas press wouldn't.
 
A hypothetical Prince Martin would likely end up a different person than Margaret (and Elizabeth may turn out different too) as they'd be growing up post-abdication knowing they will be monarch, they have more pressure to behave and get serious where she had the freedom of being a back-up.
 
Should have realized/noticed this much sooner: If Charles (b. 1948) survives the "Smog" scenario described above that claims Elizabeth, then wouldn't Margaret only be Regent until he turns 21, according to the Regency Acts then in force (and presuming Parliament doesn't pass a version of the 1953 Act)? If the 1952 Smog is bad enough to lead to Elizabeth's death, odds are that it does the same for 4-year-old Charles, thus leading to Margaret as Queen, but then it perhaps becomes an even softer AH scenario.
 
MAC161 said:
Should have realized/noticed this much sooner: If Charles (b. 1948) survives the "Smog" scenario described above that claims Elizabeth, then wouldn't Margaret only be Regent until he turns 21, according to the Regency Acts then in force (and presuming Parliament doesn't pass a version of the 1953 Act)? If the 1952 Smog is bad enough to lead to Elizabeth's death, odds are that it does the same for 4-year-old Charles, thus leading to Margaret as Queen, but then it perhaps becomes an even softer AH scenario.
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Prince in the Tower.
 
iainbhx said:
And the new televised national sport is how many pint glasses can a bloke hang off his cock (cf Bindon, John).

Princess Margaret is the posh version of Beverley from Abigail's Party with a taste for younger blokes (cf Roddy Llewellyn). The British press might be able to hold it back for a decade or two, the overseas press wouldn't.
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Cougar Queen Margaret is an... interesting mental image to have on a Monday evening.
 
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