Political and cultural figures who could've had lives/careers in different countries

[Lidenbrock]

For the Anglosphere (and adjacently), Ernest Thurtle and Eamon de Valera could have stayed in U.S. politics. Thomas Macnamara and Bonar Law were Canadian born and probably rise as high in their native country as they did in the UK.

The Egyptian premier Raghib Pasha was kidnapped from Greece and could have played a large part in an early Greek state given his OTL career. Avert/delay the American Revolution, and Albert Gallatin becomes attracted to the new French Republic's egalitarianism. Carl Schurz remains in Germany and builds a career in a successful post-1848 Germany.

There was a fun theory devised in the 19th C that Minamoto no Yoshitsune and Genghis Khan were totally the same person, despite the sources and practicalities making no sense.

 

[AH Layard]

As well as de Valera, Michael Collins briefly worked in New York from 1914 to 1915 before returning to Dublin to take up a job.

Robert Maxwell if he hadn't of been captured and subsequently escaped from the Nazis, and continued in the Czech underground.

Rab Butler, Harold Macmillan, and Enoch Powell all aspired to work in the Indian Civil Service at one point or another.

 

[Time Enough]

Chiming in with this one, before @Tom Colton does.

Devan Nair, the third President of Singapore was originally a founder and member of the Malaysian Democratic Action Party, a split from the People’s Action Party in the aftermath of split of Malaysia and Singapore. Supposedly Nair was sent to Singapore due to the Malaysia establishment fears of Nair’s popularity and Lee Kuan Yew not wanting to get into a tiff with them due to the DAP being descended and still somewhat connected to the PAP.

If things went differently, there’s a possibility that a more robust leadership by Devan Nair of the DAP could cause them to do better in 1969 which already had the UMNO lose it’s two thirds majority and narrowly gain a majority of one. The effect of a hung parliament during a political turbulent time is something that could have interesting if grim results.

 

[Nofix]

Let's talk about the Gandhi family. No, not the Nehru-Gandhi family, I'm talking Mohandas Gandhi and his descendants.

While he is obviously associated with India, Gandhi himself lived in South Africa for 21 years, more than a quarter of his life, and it was where he started his political organizing and protesting. While he was likely always planning on returning to India, especially given how South Africa remained resolute in favor of white's only rule, one has to wonder what it would be like if he stayed. If he'd only be remembered as a symbol of South Africa's Indian population rather than of all oppressed people like he is in real life.

Several of his descendants were politicians. Not just in India, as you might expect, but also in South Africa and the United States. His granddaughter Ela Gandhi spent 9 years under house arrest in South Africa and was elected to Parliament after apartheid fell.

Shanti Gandhi, a great-grandson of Mohandas came to the US in 1967 as a medialc student, and worked for many years as a heart surgeon. In 2012 he ran for the Kansas House of Representatives as a Republican. No, I am not pulling your legs. That happened. He ever asked the media to keep his relationship to his great-grandfather a secret, preferring not to let that be an unfair advantage. And they did. And he won. Only ran for a single term however.

Some were not politicians, but did live in the aforementioned nations. Arun Manilal Gandhi was a grandson of Mohandas Gandhi and lived in both South Africa (as a child) and the United States (where he moved in the 1980s, and has lived in various places like Mississippi for study, Tennessee, and New York). Like his sister Ela, he could have remained in (or returned to) South Africa and been elected to Parliament after apartheid fell.

All three are examples of people who, by name, are associated with a single nation, India, even though they themselves have lived for large portions of their lives outside of India. In another world, they could have gone to their ancestor's homeland and got involved in politics there. And in another world, several family members who did have political careers in India could have traveled elsewhere for study or for work, and ended up staying there permanently.

 

[Bonniecanuck]

An example of a Hong Kong transplant family - Suzhou-born Francis Tien, who fled to Hong Kong after the fall of Mainland China to the Communists, was a textiles salesman who helped jumpstart Hong Kong's clothing export industry after the Second World War and served on the Legislative Council, with his sons James and Michael following into business and political careers, aligned with the politically moderate pro-business wing of the pro-Beijing camp. However, Francis was initially an engineer by training and after the war he moved to Manchester for a course at Manchester College of Technology, and was already well-acclimated to speaking English after studying intensively at a foreign-run institution in Shanghai. The economic state of the UK was of course still pretty dire, but there is potential he could've decided to stay and make his career there, though the racism of the 50s and 60s would be a major obstacle, especially in a Lancashire still resentful of East Asians due to the region's dominance over global textile exports.

 

[Bolt451]

Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott could've stayed in Wales and England respectively.

I've had a TL where Ralph Miliband moves to America instead of Britain (due to a hostile environment in the UK) and alt- David and/or Ed end up Democrat Senator/Congressman

The same TL (IIRC) had Eddie Izzard's parents moving to New Zealand instead of Northern Ireland from Yemen/Aden and she ends up in NZ Politics, becoming the first Trans head of government.

 

[OHC]

Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott could've stayed in Wales and England respectively.

I've had a TL where Ralph Miliband moves to America instead of Britain (due to a hostile environment in the UK) and alt- David and/or Ed end up Democrat Senator/Congressman

The same TL (IIRC) had Eddie Izzard's parents moving to New Zealand instead of Northern Ireland from Yemen/Aden and she ends up in NZ Politics, becoming the first Trans head of government.

You know, I didn't realize how much movement there still is between the Commonwealth countries until I ran into this particular internet community and read you all talking about your experiences! (Well that and the Australian parliamentary citizenship mess.)

 

[Gorrister]

Quite a few politicians on the British mainland were born in Northern Ireland. The likes of Paddy Ashdown, Ruth Kelly, and Brian Mawhinney easily could have served as figures during the Troubles & afterward.

 

[lerk]

I don't know if this counts but Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's family traces its origins to Indian Shias from Northern India who migrated to Iran in the 19th century. Had they stayed who knows maybe Khomeini ends up becoming a figure in Pakistani/Indian religious politics, but Shias are a minority and I don't think he'd achieve the same level of success. Could still be influential though. I read that Iranian opposition supporters insultingly call him هندی زاده Hendizadeh (the son of an Indian - to basically state that he isn't Iranian).

 

[RobinCarmody]

I know I said this before, but what about the current Earl of Shaftesbury (descendant of &c &c &c) as a major US-based figure in international dance music - a globally recognised superstar DJ with his name on mainstream pop hits - had his father not been killed by his (Swedish, which may be significant in terms of not wanting to be treated as the British aristocracy have often treated their women) mother because he was such a shit and then his elder brother not died at 27 soon afterwards?

He clearly would have tried to keep his background as secret as possible if he'd become a huge name, but inevitably it would have got out, which would have made the whole issue of pop being "stolen" from the working class (though a lot of people who said that in the 00s are clearly closet racists given their failure to accept the UK rap crossover as a bona fide reversal of Will Young/James Blunt/Keane) even more of a powder keg than it actually became.

Obvious parallels with a certain royal exile in OTL (indeed, too obvious really to *need* making). I know he's not a political/cultural figure as such, but still interesting considering that it might have pushed divisions and tensions in OTL to an even higher level.

 

[Beata Beatrix]

Vladimir Zhirinovsky, of recent memory, nearly immigrated to Israel (likely at the instigation of KGB officers). I can imagine him joining Yisrael Beitenu or the like, but I have no idea how well his personal... idiosyncrasies would translate to the Israeli political context.

Admittedly, I can see it!

 

[Indicus]

Muhammad Ali Jinnah was of course the founder of Pakistan, but before venturing into politics he was the highest-paid lawyer in all of undivided India. In 1930, before he became a sectarian, he visited Britain as a delegate to the Round Table Conferences, before leaving in 1934. In this role, he argued cases in front of the Privy Council and was semi-detached from politics in India. Some historians have claimed he was seeking a parliamentary seat and that he would have stayed in the UK if he had been made Law Lord. I suspect in British politics he would have been aligned with the Conservatives, and as a Law Lord he would have been highly intelligent and learned in the law. On the other hand, his ruthless intransigence, for which he is famous in Pakistan and infamous in India, would have been a rather bad quality both as a British politician and a judge.

 

[Coiler]

Vladimir Zhirinovsky, of recent memory, nearly immigrated to Israel (likely at the instigation of KGB officers). I can imagine him joining Yisrael Beitenu or the like, but I have no idea how well his personal... idiosyncrasies would translate to the Israeli political context.

Admittedly, I can see it!

Given the Knesset's reputation as a circus, I can see a clown like him fitting in well.
(He gains a cult following that pushes his party juuuuuuust above the bare entry into parliament threshold. The Knesset being the Knesset, then he becomes a kingmaker).

 

[Coiler]

Shanti Gandhi, a great-grandson of Mohandas came to the US in 1967 as a medialc student, and worked for many years as a heart surgeon. In 2012 he ran for the Kansas House of Representatives as a Republican. No, I am not pulling your legs. That happened. He ever asked the media to keep his relationship to his great-grandfather a secret, preferring not to let that be an unfair advantage. And they did. And he won. Only ran for a single term however.

Reminds me of how one of Manmohan Singh's daughters is (or at least was) an ACLU lawyer in New York City.

 

[OHC]

I know I said this before, but what about the current Earl of Shaftesbury (descendant of &c &c &c) as a major US-based figure in international dance music - a globally recognised superstar DJ with his name on mainstream pop hits

This is an interesting story, would love more cultural examples like this if folks know any.

Vladimir Zhirinovsky, of recent memory, nearly immigrated to Israel (likely at the instigation of KGB officers). I can imagine him joining Yisrael Beitenu or the like, but I have no idea how well his personal... idiosyncrasies would translate to the Israeli political context.

Admittedly, I can see it!

Now this one's a surprise. Eccentric figure of fun among Israeli nationalists who ends up being the harbinger of the 2010s-20s drift to the far right? (I almost said "the John the Baptist" lol)

 

[Von Callay]

Oliver Cromwell was on the point of emigrating to Connecticut with some of his friends in the 1630s, wasn't he?

 

[Beata Beatrix]

Now this one's a surprise. Eccentric figure of fun among Israeli nationalists who ends up being the harbinger of the 2010s-20s drift to the far right? (I almost said "the John the Baptist" lol)

Quite, he could fit very well as a settler type.

The problem is those Russian refusenik / immigrant parties were / are dominated by big personalities (Avigdor Lieberman and Natan Sharansky, OTL - there are others one could name as well) but Zhirinovsky would be a arriviste with dodgy Soviet political ties, one of the worst personalities a human being has ever had, and no pre-existing connections except to a clearly astroturfed Soviet Jewry organization.

But, also, my god he was good at rebuilding himself.

 

[frittering]

I've had a TL where Ralph Miliband moves to America instead of Britain (due to a hostile environment in the UK) and alt- David and/or Ed end up Democrat Senator/Congressman

Me, an intellectual: Ralph moves to the States and Ed ends up a Red Sox heavyweight who leads them to break the Curse of the Bambino a decade earlier than OTL

 

[Hendryk]

I've played a fair bit with this in With Iron and Fire when it comes to Yakutia. Readers of @Bruno's "The Road to Yakutia", for example, may remember the narrator coming across an aged Francis Younghusband who has become a cult leader and a young Yul Brynner who will follow his family into the automotive business. There's also a Mordechai Olmert who hasn't done Aliyah and whose son, presumably, won't become Prime Minister of Israel.

 

[neonduke]

Quite a few politicians on the British mainland were born in Northern Ireland. The likes of Paddy Ashdown, Ruth Kelly, and Brian Mawhinney easily could have served as figures during the Troubles & afterward.

Avoid partition and you will have the major figures of interwar Northern Ireland (and probably beyond barring butterflies) with major roles in Irish politics due to establishment and economic connections and interests.