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PODs of the Thirty Years War XLI
- Thread starter Gary Oswald
- Start date
- Location
- Derbyshire
No, I have no idea how Condé lived to 65 either.
Probably the same way neither Ney nor Murat died on a battlefield either, and not for lack of trying.No, I have no idea how Condé lived to 65 either.
It's funny, as far as he is known in France, it's as the victor of Rocroi and then the rebel of the Fronde, living up to his nickname of Great, but he should be more known simply as a butcher. At least he was not as completely useless as Beaufort.
Death's Companion
General Ugg Apologist.
Again really not seeing much generalship on the French side beyond their opposite numbers simply winning to death trying to kill them all.
Turenne is really putting in a lot. Though he's more skilled at manoeuvres than battlefield tactics, I believe, but the point in those years was very much not to bring your enemy to the field, much better to chase him off without fighting.Again really not seeing much generalship on the French side beyond their opposite numbers simply winning to death trying to kill them all.
- Location
- Derbyshire
Turenne would almost certainly have won the war in the South with his tactics if it weren't for one slight issue.Turenne is really putting in a lot. Though he's more skilled at manoeuvres than battlefield tactics, I believe, but the point in those years was very much not to bring your enemy to the field, much better to chase him off without fighting.
Franz von Mercy was just better at those same tactics than him.
And it wasn't even much better, Turenne could go toe-to-toe and come out with an army intact and the ability to withdraw in good order. That's not a small thing in this period. He'd have run rings round the Archduke Leopold, or Pappenheim. I'd put him in the favourable position against Tilly. I think Gustavus Adolphus or Wallenstein would have the better of him, but it'd be a big bloody brutal battle and probably blunt the offense. He'd have torn somebody like Gallas to shreds.
It's just that von Mercy was, in his own particular field, the better general. And he managed not to make any serious mistakes in their clashes.
I think my most genuine opinion here is that Turenne was a better general than d'Enghien (and I'm specifically referring to him by that as I'm not sure what his tactics were like by the time he was in the Fronde), but out of the two of them, possibly out of any of the Generals France had available at this point, d'Enghien was the only one who could beat Mercy.
- Location
- Derbyshire
I'll also admit my assumption is their battleplan meetings basically just went like this:Luckily for Turenne, that particular issue has just gotten resolved.
Turenne: Nooooo! You can't just launch a frontal attack onto prepared defensive positions and expect to win by weight of numbers! You need to get around them and force them to fight on your terms!
d'Enghien: Ha, Ha! Bavarians go Boom!