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Forgotten Conflicts: The Libyan-Chadian War
- Thread starter Gary Oswald
- Start date
Von Callay
Getting Grilled by Special Agent Nixon
The Chadians at this time had also learned that the Pickup trucks would not set off a Libyan Landmine, if they were moving at over 100 kilometres per hour when they drove over them.
Of all the ways I expected to learn that someone avoided death in a minefield, 'recklessly accelerating his pickup truck to over 100kph' was never going to be one of them.
Of all the ways I expected to learn that someone avoided death in a minefield, 'recklessly accelerating his pickup truck to over 100kph' was never going to be one of them.
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"Libya could have carved out a small empire and also gained uranium" does seem like it should be a bigger deal in AH speculation and historical knowledge, doesn't it?
(Do the French remember it as a big deal or "oh yeah that"?)
(Do the French remember it as a big deal or "oh yeah that"?)
- Location
- Derbyshire
"Libya could have carved out a small empire and also gained uranium" does seem like it should be a bigger deal in AH speculation and historical knowledge, doesn't it?
(Do the French remember it as a big deal or "oh yeah that"?)
I feel like the possibility of 'Gadaffi carves out a small Empire stretching from the Med to the Congo, overstretches himself and then gets overthrown by a broad alliance of Pro-Democracy, dissident military and nationalist groups backed by basically everyone in North Africa' is also quite juicy a possibility.
The popularisation of "technical" pickup trucks as weapons of war are probably the best-known aspect of the war in the west (although people may not know that's where they originate). They even appeared in Command & Conquer: Generals!The Chadians at this time had also learned that the Pickup trucks would not set off a Libyan Landmine, if they were moving at over 100 kilometres per hour when they drove over them.
Of all the ways I expected to learn that someone avoided death in a minefield, 'wrecklessly accelerating his pickup truck to over 100kph' was never going to be one of them.
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It could get complicated, because Gadaffi was on good terms with the PLO at the time (PLO forces gave assistance in this war). There's also the butterflies that may arise from the Uganda/Tanzania war of 1978-79, in which the best of the Ugandan forces were Libyan and Palestinian. Changes in one could easily impact the other.
There's a wonderful book called 'Africa's 30 Years War' which argues that the Chadian civil war became the playground for African power struggles and you can trace a lot of subsequent conflicts in neighbouring countries like Sudan and Uganda to it.
I think it would be very tight in terms of logistics for Gaddafi to have time to fully enshrine Goukouni as his puppet ruler in Chad in 78 and then be able to pivot from that to invest enough forces in Uganda to stop Amin from falling in 1979. Though his troops would be a lot closer if the French hadn't stopped him, I guess and the airlift of Libyan troops to remove Habre in 81 was genuinely impressive.
More likely you'd perhaps see Libya lose Chad either to the likes of Habre or because Goukouni cuts the puppet strings if they invest too much in fighting Tanzania.
TR1996
Well-known member
- Location
- Adelaide, South Australia
I feel like there's a whole bunch of wars in post-colonial Africa that I don't know about at all, other than them being endlessly confusing.
There's often very high name recognition with a very specific generational group of people who remember seeing it on the TV news at a certain age, and none outside of that. (Cf: Biafra, Katanga).I feel like there's a whole bunch of wars in post-colonial Africa that I don't know about at all, other than them being endlessly confusing.
This specific conflict is one of those for me. I was a teen at the time, and I remember that the Aozou Strip came up in the news every once in a while.There's often very high name recognition with a very specific generational group of people who remember seeing it on the TV news at a certain age, and none outside of that. (Cf: Biafra, Katanga).
Not an African example but for me, my complaint aged six was "why does the news never talk about anything except Bosnian Serbs?"This specific conflict is one of those for me. I was a teen at the time, and I remember that the Aozou Strip came up in the news every once in a while.
"Libya could have carved out a small empire and also gained uranium" does seem like it should be a bigger deal in AH speculation and historical knowledge, doesn't it?
(Do the French remember it as a big deal or "oh yeah that"?)
Which French? The diplomatic service, certainly, the general public, not at all I’d bet.
Biafra led to Doctors Without Borders being established so it has had a chance to stick some more in memory.There's often very high name recognition with a very specific generational group of people who remember seeing it on the TV news at a certain age, and none outside of that. (Cf: Biafra, Katanga).
i would pay alot to be a fly on the wall for when Chad figured this out.The Chadians at this time had also learned that the Pickup trucks would not set off a Libyan Landmine, if they were moving at over 100 kilometres per hour when they drove over them.
Of all the ways I expected to learn that someone avoided death in a minefield, 'recklessly accelerating his pickup truck to over 100kph' was never going to be one of them.
I miss that game so muchThe popularisation of "technical" pickup trucks as weapons of war are probably the best-known aspect of the war in the west (although people may not know that's where they originate). They even appeared in Command & Conquer: Generals!
I have several more in my head. Eritera and Ethiopia is liable to happen, as is the Ogaden War.I feel like there's a whole bunch of wars in post-colonial Africa that I don't know about at all, other than them being endlessly confusing.
- Location
- Coventry
Does a SCUD have the range ro hit Corsica from Libya?
- Location
- Coventry
I feel like there's a whole bunch of wars in post-colonial Africa that I don't know about at all, other than them being endlessly confusing.
The 2nd Congo War is such, including how the Zimbabweans turned out to be one of more effective combatants solely by having a decent air force.
TR1996
Well-known member
- Location
- Adelaide, South Australia
The 2nd Congo War is such, including how the Zimbabweans turned out to be one of more effective combatants solely by having a decent air force.
Yeah, that was one of the ones I had in my head as being endlessly confusing.
- Location
- North Alabama
Does a SCUD have the range ro hit Corsica from Libya?
Range on a Scud varies wildly between the different variants, but IIRC the maximum range was about 450 miles. It’s one of the reasons that the Iraqis had Gerald Bull working on a version of it with multiple unarmed Scuds essentially tied around one with one with a warhead on board in the 1980s as a side project to his super gun.
I found the ripples heading out towards Libya and even Uganda one of the more fascinating aspects of The Death of Lt. Arthur Windsor, RN.It could get complicated, because Gadaffi was on good terms with the PLO at the time (PLO forces gave assistance in this war). There's also the butterflies that may arise from the Uganda/Tanzania war of 1978-79, in which the best of the Ugandan forces were Libyan and Palestinian. Changes in one could easily impact the other.
Well, that and the IRA/Blondie/Tweenies mashup.
Libya only had Scud-Bs, which had a much shorter range than the reverse-engineered Iraqi examples.Range on a Scud varies wildly between the different variants, but IIRC the maximum range was about 450 miles. It’s one of the reasons that the Iraqis had Gerald Bull working on a version of it with multiple unarmed Scuds essentially tied around one with one with a warhead on board in the 1980s as a side project to his super gun.
Reading a bio on Che Guevara right now that's nearing his time in newly-independent Congo, and it's gotten me wondering about alternate outcomes to that conflict (ex: Lumumba escapes capture by Mobutu, and maybe the nearly-simultaneous CIA assassination plan, pushing him more toward the USSR; the Katanga region breaks away, as do several other regions, forming a new set of states from the old Belgian Congo and another zone of superpower jockeying). Also pondering what potential PODs exist for preventing the Rwandan Genocide or Darfur, or ending them much more quickly than in OTL
- Location
- North Alabama
Libya only had Scud-Bs, which had a much shorter range than the reverse-engineered Iraqi examples.
So only a couple of hundred miles, even if they'd gone down the Bull route of modifying them. Plus they'd have had to have cracked miniaturization for the warhead to be effective. IF they'd had access to the uranium, though, it might well have been worth them diverting the money and effort into building a more effective delivery means.
A lot of AH potential here...