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Exploring Alternate Wars of the Roses: John Neville and His Son Jilted George

TR1996

Well-known member
George Neville, Duke of Bedford (1461-1483), is of course not to be confused with his uncle George Neville, Archbishop of York (1432-1476); his first cousin-once removed George Neville, 4th/2nd Baron Bergavenny (1440-1492); his second cousin George Neville, 5th/3rd Baron Bergavenny (1469-1535); or his great-uncle George Neville, 1st Baron Latimer (1407-1469).
 

Thande

UP THE WORKERS & Ukrainians
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George Neville, Duke of Bedford (1461-1483), is of course not to be confused with his uncle George Neville, Archbishop of York (1432-1476); his first cousin-once removed George Neville, 4th/2nd Baron Bergavenny (1440-1492); his second cousin George Neville, 5th/3rd Baron Bergavenny (1469-1535); or his great-uncle George Neville, 1st Baron Latimer (1407-1469).
You can see why aristocrats liked (and like) nicknames so much.
 

Geordie

"One of popculture's most iconic men"
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You can see why aristocrats liked (and like) nicknames so much.
When at university, I did a presentation which touched on the Breton Civil War. Iirc, I explained it thus:

"When Duke John died, a succession crisis arose. The supporters of John clashed with those of Charles, who was backed by another John. At the end of a lot of fighting, John inherited. Yeah, another one entirely. This one was John's son."

I then showed a family tree to explain it a bit more helpfully.
 

Redolegna

Champagne Socialist
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When at university, I did a presentation which touched on the Breton Civil War. Iirc, I explained it thus:

"When Duke John died, a succession crisis arose. The supporters of John clashed with those of Charles, who was backed by another John. At the end of a lot of fighting, John inherited. Yeah, another one entirely. This one was John's son."

I then showed a family tree to explain it a bit more helpfully.
John was married to Jeanne/Joan, who did a lot to support his cause, while Charles was married to a different Jeanne/Joan, who did a lot to support his cause. The first Jeanne was supported by the English but eventually kept under close watch which is best described as house arrest. The second Jeanne was supported by the French, but turned to the new John after the French under a different Charles, son of a different John, made an attempt to annex the duchy outright...

It's generally as this point you start to cheer foreign marriages, not because they bring in new people but their new names, such as the Aragons and Yolanda.
 

Geordie

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John was married to Jeanne/Joan, who did a lot to support his cause, while Charles was married to a different Jeanne/Joan, who did a lot to support his cause. The first Jeanne was supported by the English but eventually kept under close watch which is best described as house arrest. The second Jeanne was supported by the French, but turned to the new John after the French under a different Charles, son of a different John, made an attempt to annex the duchy outright...

It's generally as this point you start to cheer foreign marriages, not because they bring in new people but their new names, such as the Aragons and Yolanda.
Oh yes, I forgot they were all married to Jeanne/Joan. Great fun.

Then again, I'm no better. When I do CK2 games as somewhere like Aquitaine, I go for an unbroken line of Guillames as far as I can.
 
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Thande

UP THE WORKERS & Ukrainians
Published by SLP
When at university, I did a presentation which touched on the Breton Civil War. Iirc, I explained it thus:

"When Duke John died, a succession crisis arose. The supporters of John clashed with those of Charles, who was backed by another John. At the end of a lot of fighting, John inherited. Yeah, another one entirely. This one was John's son."

I then showed a family tree to explain it a bit more helpfully.
The Very Bloody History of Britain (Without the Boring Bits) has a good bit where the author gets very confused with all the Matildas in the 12th century.
 

Ciclavex

Baron Ciclavex of Grittsysborough in New Sweden
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The Very Bloody History of Britain (Without the Boring Bits) has a good bit where the author gets very confused with all the Matildas in the 12th century.
You can blame St. Matilda, Queen of Germany, because not only was she an extremely popular saint among commoners and nobles in that stage of the middle ages, she was also the grandmother or great-grandmother to most of the monarchs in Europe by the turn of the 11th century and, making matters worse, one of her namesake descendants proceeded to smash the Emperor very badly, achieving final victory to make herself the effective Queen of Italy around the time as the Matildas being born in the 12th century were starting to be born, including Empress Matilda, who was Queen of England and don’t believe all of this fake news about some Stephen guy.
 

TR1996

Well-known member
You can blame St. Matilda, Queen of Germany, because not only was she an extremely popular saint among commoners and nobles in that stage of the middle ages, she was also the grandmother or great-grandmother to most of the monarchs in Europe by the turn of the 11th century and, making matters worse, one of her namesake descendants proceeded to smash the Emperor very badly, achieving final victory to make herself the effective Queen of Italy around the time as the Matildas being born in the 12th century were starting to be born, including Empress Matilda, who was Queen of England and don’t believe all of this fake news about some Stephen guy.
Her mum having her name changed from Edith to Matilda is just the cherry on top of the whole phenomena.
 

Jared

fatal softener
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You can blame St. Matilda, Queen of Germany, because not only was she an extremely popular saint among commoners and nobles in that stage of the middle ages, she was also the grandmother or great-grandmother to most of the monarchs in Europe by the turn of the 11th century and, making matters worse, one of her namesake descendants proceeded to smash the Emperor very badly, achieving final victory to make herself the effective Queen of Italy around the time as the Matildas being born in the 12th century were starting to be born, including Empress Matilda, who was Queen of England and don’t believe all of this fake news about some Stephen guy.
So basically Europe was playing waltzing Matilda a thousand years before an Australian came up with a song about it.
 
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