ChatGPT and creating alternate history

[lordroel]

So i am exploring how capable ChatGPT is creating timelines and alternate history depending on the question asked and while it still has a lot of work, i think one day a member here ore on other forums can just ask ChatGPT, create me a timeline where Russia is divided into three countries after a Russian Civil War in the 1990s and we would not be able to see if it was AI generated ore comming out of a human mind.

So am i wrong ore and what do other members think about ChatGPT and its ability to just create work of friction.

 

[monroe]

I find the prospect of disengaging with writing to the extent of just posting the results of a GPT to be a profoundly miserable prospect, and I get especially sad seeing this being suggested as a mode for the future on a writing forum

 

[lordroel]

I find the prospect of disengaging with writing to the extent of just posting the results of a GPT to be a profoundly miserable prospect, and I get especially sad seeing this being suggested as a mode for the future on a writing forum

I am not suggesting using ChatGPT as a replacement for writing, i just toughed to hear what members opinion is about ChatGPT ability to create works of fiction that in the future might not be able separate one work from another.

 

[Japhy]

Chatbots can't create. People need to stop navel gazing about rebranded predictive text.

 

[Coiler]

It's basically just a rich man's autocorrect. For using it to write AH, it's basically just automated wiki-plucking.

 

[lordroel]

It's basically just a rich man's autocorrect. For using it to write AH, it's basically just automated wiki-plucking.

So far as i have tested it, the results are not yet that it can compete with the originality of a human imagination.

One example i tried to see was create three separate German republics after the end of World War II, ChatGPT still had them reunite as OTL East and West Germany.

It will use OTL events still as a factor in creating timelines.

 

[monroe]

So far as i have tested it, the results are not yet that it can compete with the originality of a human imagination.

One example i tried to see was create three separate German republics after the end of World War II, ChatGPT still had them reunite as OTL East and West Germany.

It will use OTL events still as a factor in creating timelines.

And it'll never get better than that because it's a GPT.

There will never be an ideal perfect chatbox that can produce an impeccable timeline because that's just not the function of a GPT, nor something its architecture can actually do

 

[Alexander Rooksmoor]

While not ChatGPT, I was interested in this effectively AH artefact created by AIsis using AI to produce an album of tracks that the original line-up of Oasis could have produced if they had continued. Apparently it is not bad, if you like Oasis tracks. A genuine band backs the AI-generated Liam.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/apr/18/oasis-aisis-band-fronted-by-an-ai-liam-gallagher

The whole album can be heard on YouTube

 

[Callan]

I think my question would be why?

If you’re not in the driver’s seat, passing off a TL as your own and making money off of it (which would be straight up scamming SLP, and not what you’re doing) using ChatGPT to write a TL is at best proof of concept.

Everyone knows a computer did it and the audience can’t meaningfully engage with what’s been written.

So why? What do we think doing TLs and creative writing more generally is? What is it for, if we can just get a computer programme to churn it out?

 

[RyanF]

Hard times is when a man has been making TLs for thirty years! Thirty years! They give him a like, kick him in the butt and say: "Hey, a bot took your place, daddy!"

 

[Makemakean]

So i am exploring how capable ChatGPT is creating timelines and alternate history depending on the question asked and while it still has a lot of work, i think one day a member here ore on other forums can just ask ChatGPT, create me a timeline where Russia is divided into three countries after a Russian Civil War in the 1990s and we would not be able to see if it was AI generated ore comming out of a human mind.

So am i wrong ore and what do other members think about ChatGPT and its ability to just create work of friction.

Well, I mean, that depends on what level of quality it is that you're after.

Most of the stuff that you ever see on this forum is just PMs and Presidents Lists, you know.

1964-1970: Harold Wilson (Labour) [1]
1970-1974: Edward Heath (Conservative) [2]
1974-1976: Harold Wilson (Labour) [3]
1976-1979: James Callaghan (Labour) [4]

With the numbers giving the story told in footnotes. The whole format and concept is so formulaic and so brief in its execution, that I'd dare to say that if you just want a story with three Russias after a Civil War told in a PMs/Presidents' List, well, we're pretty much there already in as far as the AI being able to produce something that is indistinguishable from what a human would come up with.

As for reaching the point where it can write a full-length alternate history novel, I don't think we're even nearly there yet, and further, it strikes me that you're probably going to need to have your AI have more functionalities than the ones currently up there. How far we are from that, I do not know.

Still, in the nineties, having a computer beat a Grand Master at chess was considered the Holy Grail, hence why there was so much attention surrounding Kasparov vs Deep Blue. Nowadays, as Gary Kasparov himself admits, there are chess playing apps that you can download for free for your cell phone that would be able to defeat him without any problems. Maybe we're closer than we realize?

So, yeah, I have no doubt that we will reach that point sooner or later.

 

[Makemakean]

I think my question would be why?

If you’re not in the driver’s seat, passing off a TL as your own and making money off of it (which would be straight up scamming SLP, and not what you’re doing) using ChatGPT to write a TL is at best proof of concept.

Everyone knows a computer did it and the audience can’t meaningfully engage with what’s been written.

So why? What do we think doing TLs and creative writing more generally is? What is it for, if we can just get a computer programme to churn it out?

If there are some people who get some sort of enjoyment out of reading AI generated stories, then that is all the reason I really need to justify it being there. Though I anticipate that there will always be a market for non-AI generated stories, simply because some people will feel that it isn't real if there isn't some human behind it all.

Though I am amused by the question of how such people would engage with fiction if we reached such levels of computational sophistication that it was impossible for even the most astute of literary critics to tell whether something was written by a human or a computer. Let's say you gave them a piece of fiction and wouldn't tell them whether it was written by an AI. Would they then be unable to enjoy it or engage with it until they had proof that it was actually written by a human? If you told them it was by an AI would they then instinctively find it to be empty and lacking in meaning even if it was written by a human? And conversely, would they find it meaningful, even engaging, if you told them it had been written by a human even if it was written by an AI?

But in answer to your final question, I'd say that doing TLs and creative writing is something we do pretty much purely for own entertainment and amusement.

 

[Callan]

f there are some people who get some sort of enjoyment out of reading AI generated stories, then that is all the reason I really need to justify it being there. Though I anticipate that there will always be a market for non-AI generated stories, simply because some people will feel that it isn't real if there isn't some human behind it all.

Taste is subjective but I’m not sure what exactly people get out of AI AH or AI fiction just generally. It’s always extremely bland and the knowledge of where it came from makes it moreso. I don’t think you can have even base-level enjoyment of fiction without some level of human connection - because in my opinion, fiction isn’t real if there isn’t “some human” behind it all. That is very much the magic of fiction, that something in someone’s head became real, that didn’t truly exist before that person thought of it and made their own interpretation of it in whatever medium.

ChatGPT can’t create, and it explicitly doesn’t claim to. All it can do is scavenge the internet and turn all that information into an answer. You’re reading an open-book exam.

Though I am amused by the question of how such people would engage with fiction if we reached such levels of computational sophistication that it was impossible for even the most astute of literary critics to tell whether something was written by a human or a computer. Let's say you gave them a piece of fiction and wouldn't tell them whether it was written by an AI. Would they then be unable to enjoy it or engage with it until they had proof that it was actually written by a human? If you told them it was by an AI would they then instinctively find it to be empty and lacking in meaning even if it was written by a human? And conversely, would they find it meaningful, even engaging, if you told them it had been written by a human even if it was written by an AI?

If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bike. I agree, if things were different they’d be different. And I also agree that people will feel differently about fiction when they’re not lied to about it’s provenance.

I'd say that doing TLs and creative writing is something we do pretty much purely for own entertainment and amusement.

I dispute the idea that doing TLs and creative writing is purely for our own entertainment and amusement - if that were true, why would anyone post their work in a public forum? Might as well close up everything other than the Pub if that’s the case. It’s deeply insulting to suggest that creative writing is “pretty much purely for our own entertainment and amusement.” I don’t believe you honestly think that.

But if you do, then I understand why you’re so blasé about AI TLs. If that’s what you think AH and creative writing is, then I see why you would think that prompting a computer to regurgitate pre-existing content in a new order based upon all of the internet that is available to it is on a similar level to stuff many people on this very site have poured (quite literally) their hearts and souls into.

 

[Jared]

Still, in the nineties, having a computer beat a Grand Master at chess was considered the Holy Grail, hence why there was so much attention surrounding Kasparov vs Deep Blue. Nowadays, as Gary Kasparov himself admits, there are chess playing apps that you can download for free for your cell phone that would be able to defeat him without any problems. Maybe we're closer than we realize?

So, yeah, I have no doubt that we will reach that point sooner or later.

It's worth pointing out that ChatGPT - and equivalent models - is not just an AI which has been fed lots of real data and then this is what it generates. These AI models are trained by having a large bunch of (low-paid) people look at their initial output, vet it into what are deemed the most appropriate responses, then go through several iterations of that before being let loose into the wild where, well, thousands (or millions) of people sift through AI responses and help the designers work out what kind of responses humans like.

In effect, writing (or anything else) with ChatGPT is AI-assisted answers, not just an AI generating something out of nothing. To get an AI which can generate appealing longer stories, then what you'd effectively be doing is AI-assisted writing at longer and longer iterations. Not impossible, but not quick to get done, and leads to all sorts of questions about copyright, plagiarism, ownership, and so forth.

Less of a concern if using ChatGPT to write formulaic free output on a web forum, more of a concern if trying to sell stories for profit.

 

[I Saw A Red Sky]

I've seen some interesting AI art, AI writing can pass MBA tests I guess? But a monkey also could. The technology does not seem to be there.

 

[Makemakean]

Taste is subjective but I’m not sure what exactly people get out of AI AH or AI fiction just generally. It’s always extremely bland and the knowledge that it’s just computer servers scavenging the internet makes it moreso. I don’t think you can have even base-level enjoyment of fiction without some level of human connection - because in my opinion, fiction isn’t real if there isn’t “some human” behind it all.

Oh, there's an awful lot of fiction I don't see what people really get out of it. Certainly there's an awful lot of PMs/Presidents list on this forum that I genuinely find unbelievably bland (though I will of course give any examples, since that would strike as being in pretty bad taste). And yet Lists of Heads of Government and Heads of State remains the thread in the Scenarios and Points of Divergences subforum that has the most replies. Clearly some people get something out of it, my bewilderment all the same.

If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bike. I agree, if things were different they’d be different.

So, if I understand you correct then, you don't think it's ever going to be possible to develop computer code that would be able to pass the "authorial Turing test", so to speak?

And I also agree that people will feel differently about fiction when they’re not lied to about it’s provenance.

Indeed, which is kind of really my point. The meaning we find in a work seems to be completely dependent on the way we approach it, what we bring into it. All the meaning we find in a work of fiction can be lost as if by the snap of one's fingers the moment we find out something about the author. That is something I find remarkable.

I dispute the idea that doing TLs and creative writing is purely for our own entertainment and amusement - if that were true, why would anyone post their work in a public forum? Might as well close up everything other than the Pub if that’s the case. It’s deeply insulting to suggest that creative writing is “pretty much purely for our own entertainment and amusement.” I don’t believe you honestly think that.

But if you do, then I understand why you’re so blasé about AI TLs. If that’s what you think AH and creative writing is, then I see why you would think that prompting a computer to regurgitate pre-existing content in a new order based upon all of the internet that is available to it is on a similar level to stuff many people on this very site have poured (quite literally) their hearts and souls into.

I suppose you share it on a forum because of the communal aspect of it all, and it's fun to share with others, but yeah, that's about it.

I'm afraid that I honestly do believe that, I am saddened that you find that viewpoint insulting, seeing I certainly don't intend to insult anyone. And for what it's worth, I don't think that AI generated stories in any way removes any meaning from creative writing or anything of the sort, nor would I ever insult the effort that other people have, as you say, quite literally poured their hearts and souls into.

 

[Makemakean]

And to the extent that it might help you trust in the purity of my motives, I've posted stuff on this forum that I've very much poured my heart and soul into. The Marquis of Mandal might not be a story that is particularly to your liking, or something you consider to be particularly good writing of any kind, but it's all the same something that I've poured my heart and soul into. And I've posted tonnes of artwork that I've spent countless hours slaving over. Just take this, for instance.

Spoiler: Very Old Christmas Card

It might not be artwork that you think is particularly good artwork. But it's stuff I've invested quite a lot of myself into.

I am not trying to insult the work of anyone anymore than I am trying to insult my own work, and I am not arguing in bad faith.

Perhaps my views are a tad unconventional or unorthodox, but I have never in my life decided on championing any particular view I've championed simply because I wanted to come across as a contrarian or edgy, and in fact have always had low regard for people who take some sort of pride in being contrarian as if contrarianism had some sort of value to itself.

 

[napoleon IV]

It's the kind of thing that's fun as a joke, like have the robot write an AH and then we can all laugh when it makes Harold Wilson the Emperor of Bolivia, but like others I don't really see it as a serious tool. I honestly think the biggest use of AI in the writing sphere is going to be to replace the least useful and least talent-requiring forms of writing, stuff like chumbox listicles and ghostwritten self-help books that are spammed on Amazon. But not writing anything worth reading.

 

[I Saw A Red Sky]

It's the kind of thing that's fun as a joke, like have the robot write an AH and then we can all laugh when it makes Harold Wilson the Emperor of Bolivia, but like others I don't really see it as a serious tool. I honestly think the biggest use of AI in the writing sphere is going to be to replace the least useful and least talent-requiring forms of writing, stuff like chumbox listicles and ghostwritten self-help books that are spammed on Amazon. But not writing anything worth reading.

The greatest innovation in the field is books written by real human beings that read like they were written by AI.

 

[Radac]

I've used ChatGPT for fun to see if it could do althist and frankly speaking I can't say I was blown away. It's a cool novelty but I can't say it'll replace an althist writer since a lot of good althist is done with indepth research.