• Hi Guest!

    The costs of running this forum are covered by Sea Lion Press. If you'd like to help support the company and the forum, visit patreon.com/sealionpress

Artists/Bands who could have been more commercially successful?

AH Layard

Well-known member
Which musical artists/bands could have made it bigger than they did OTL? Commercial success is hugely dependent on what is trending at the time, and artists and bands can be knocked off course by unforeseen events or bad decisions. Some ideas:

  • Squeeze: Had several hits in the late '70s/early '80s ('Cool for Cats', 'Up the Junction', 'Tempted') and were touted as the 'next Lennon and McCartney' at one stage due to their song writing abilities, but they never seemed to take off and are less well known today. Featured a young Jools Holland on the keyboard who went on to greater fame.
  • Gerry Rafferty: Had a huge international hit with 'Baker Street' (and previous success with Stealer's Wheel) but was reluctant to follow this with an American tour. If he toured in an ATL it's likely that he would have been a much bigger star and had a bigger reception for his next album Night Owl, with singles 'Take the Money and Run' and 'Days Gone Down'. He continued to write great songs for the rest of his life, e.g. 'Don't Speak of My Heart'.
  • Thin Lizzy: Known for 'The Boys Are Back in Town', but at the height of their fame Phil Lynott fell ill with hepatitis so they didn't tour the US, and a second tour was cancelled when Brian Robertson's hand was injured in a bar fight. They were enormously unlucky as they were a fantastic live band and their others tours were big successes.
  • Guns 'n' Roses: Were hugely successful for a time, touted by Mick Jagger as the successors to the Stones, but broke up as they hit their prime.
  • X: Achieved critical success as one of the best American punk rock bands but never achieved much commercial success. Their cover of The Troggs' 'Wild Thing' could have been a hit.
 
I do think the Other Two (Stephen Morris and Gillian Gilbert from New Order) could have made a name for themselves in the Indie and Dance scenes of the 90s what with New Order imploding and all that. But as with many things Madchester related, they’re first album got swamped by the collapse of Factory Records and so there album scheduled for 1991 came out two years later and got lost, even then they still managed to get to No. 41 in the charts in 1991 and No. 46 two years later, which given it they released with very little promotion and were overtaken by a collapsing record label, isn’t bad.
Gerry Rafferty: Had a huge international hit with 'Baker Street' (and previous success with Stealer's Wheel) but was reluctant to follow this with an American tour. If he toured in an ATL it's likely that he would have been a much bigger star and had a bigger reception for his next album Night Owl, with singles 'Take the Money and Run' and 'Days Gone Down'. He continued to write great songs for the rest of his life, e.g. 'Don't Speak of My Heart'.
I feel like Gerry Rafferty’s Soft Rock sound is almost purposefully perfect for the period of 1978 - 1982, and if he had toured likely would have meant a longer staying power given how sharp the drop off is after Night Owl in sales.
 
Gerry Rafferty: Had a huge international hit with 'Baker Street' (and previous success with Stealer's Wheel) but was reluctant to follow this with an American tour. If he toured in an ATL it's likely that he would have been a much bigger star and had a bigger reception for his next album Night Owl, with singles 'Take the Money and Run' and 'Days Gone Down'. He continued to write great songs for the rest of his life, e.g. 'Don't Speak of My Heart'.
ah, and bob holness will blow up with his saxophone career rather than hosting blockbusters!

don't worry, i know
 
Mother Love Bone was an early Seattle grunge band that was really popular with everyone in that scene. Frontman Andrew Wood was considered this musical genius, and their first album was pretty great. Then Andrew Wood died of a heroin overdose shortly before the album was released and the band broke up. This was in 1990, right before grunge took off, so if Wood had managed to get clean there's two possibilities:

1. Mother Love Bone's debut album does well, but doesn't take the world by storm. In 1991 Nirvana releases Nevermind and things go as they did IOTL, except Mother Love Bone is one of the major grunge bands alongside Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and Alice in Chains.

2. The more interesting possibility is that Mother Love Bone becomes the band that breaks through first. They actually probably have a similar career trajectory to Nirvana IOTL: big fame, trying to go back to their roots, then the frontman dies (I suppose it's possible Wood kicks heroin long term and lives, but the track record for grunge frontmen kicking their addictions and living long isn't great).
 
Ivy: They were decently popular but I sorta think having a noticeably French singer hurt them during the 2000s. Adam Schlesinger later formed Fountains of Wayne.
 
The Kinks could have quite easily become much, much, more successful than OTL--all you have to do is keep Dave Davies away from the booze so he doesn't punch anyone or get a manager who's willing to still pay the band in cash, and they don't lose the American Federation of Musicians' license and get to tour the US for the whole British Invasion. The Kinks were always a lot more ostenatiously British than their contempories, as well, which would have given them a real advantage for an Anglophilic American audience.

Of course, this would arguably be a curse in disguise. Without the enforced exile in the UK, Ray Davies wouldn't be pushed back into returning to his roots so heavily. At best, you might still get Face to Face just as a function of the band's maturity, but becoming an American smash hit could preclude stuff like Waterloo Sunset and Village Green Preservation Society being written in favour of more stuff in the vein of You Really Got Me. So the band that succeeds could bear very little relationship with the band we all know and love.
 
I agree that the Kinks could have become more successful, although I think the Kinks' ostentatious Britishness was more of a disadvantage to American audiences, it put them in the niche/quirky category whereas the Beatles were able to straddle the line more effectively (Sgt. Pepper for example, is full of Victorian music hall and dry wit but also has mainstream pop songs and psychedelic influences). Many of the Beatles/Stones' lyrics were quite simple so had universal appeal, whereas many of Davies' lyrics are more sophisticated but intended for British ears.

But also I think a big factor holding them back was their production. Compared to many of the top bands of the day, their records sound unpolished and tinny which doesn't allow the great songwriting to shine through. I've often wondered what some of the songs would have sounded like if George Martin had produced them.
 
The Kinks could have quite easily become much, much, more successful than OTL--all you have to do is keep Dave Davies away from the booze so he doesn't punch anyone or get a manager who's willing to still pay the band in cash, and they don't lose the American Federation of Musicians' license and get to tour the US for the whole British Invasion. The Kinks were always a lot more ostenatiously British than their contempories, as well, which would have given them a real advantage for an Anglophilic American audience.

Of course, this would arguably be a curse in disguise. Without the enforced exile in the UK, Ray Davies wouldn't be pushed back into returning to his roots so heavily. At best, you might still get Face to Face just as a function of the band's maturity, but becoming an American smash hit could preclude stuff like Waterloo Sunset and Village Green Preservation Society being written in favour of more stuff in the vein of You Really Got Me. So the band that succeeds could bear very little relationship with the band we all know and love.

Some more thoughts on this:

It's maybe too pessimistic to write off Anglo-Kinks completely. After all, the *gags* Beatles still got to try out the sitar at the height of their fame. Still, without the sour grapes of forced exile, it'll be much less full-throated and constant--something like Village Green, Shangri-La, or Waterloo Sunset might appear in the middle of an album that's pretty much just an updated Kinks Kontroversy, but the total embrace of Merry England the band went through would be absent. There's a chance it could show up as part of Ray Davies' late style when he was making those ludicrous concept albums.

This does leave us with two artistic wells to tap. The first, and most obvious, is the music industry--as early as Face to Face you can see the roots of Lola vs Powerman in Session Man. In a TL where the Kinks are much more integrated into showbiz, those themes are going to come to the fore, and !Face to Face might have !Session Man as its more typical song and !Dead-End Street as an outlier.

The second is one of Davies' historic influences. One of the first people he sought advice from in music was Alexis Korner, the father of British blues, and a lot of the band's earlier covers were R&B standards like Long Tall Sally. Davies was something of a musical magpie (shifting through the Seventies and Eighties from punk to prog), and he's in the country this style that influenced him was from, at the dawn of Motown and blue-eyed soul. A lot could happen from there...

But also I think a big factor holding them back was their production. Compared to many of the top bands of the day, their records sound unpolished and tinny which doesn't allow the great songwriting to shine through. I've often wondered what some of the songs would have sounded like if George Martin had produced them.

Good point. A better producer could bump up ticket sales and prevent their American tour being such an unmitigated disaster without fixing the bad behaviour on tour--which, in turn, will have a knock-on effect on expectations for the band generally that might lead to Dave Davies straight-up getting stabbed.

I agree that the Kinks could have become more successful, although I think the Kinks' ostentatious Britishness was more of a disadvantage to American audiences, it put them in the niche/quirky category whereas the Beatles were able to straddle the line more effectively (Sgt. Pepper for example, is full of Victorian music hall and dry wit but also has mainstream pop songs and psychedelic influences). Many of the Beatles/Stones' lyrics were quite simple so had universal appeal, whereas many of Davies' lyrics are more sophisticated but intended for British ears.

Fair enough, yeah--a lot of the Britishness was due to missing out on the British Invasion and doubling down on Anglophilia, but Davies' wordiness will still put the band at a disadvantage.
 
Davies was something of a musical magpie (shifting through the Seventies and Eighties from punk to prog), and he's in the country this style that influenced him was from, at the dawn of Motown and blue-eyed soul. A lot could happen from there...
Ray Davies doing a Plastic Soul era could amusingly break him through as a solo artist in America, which would be quite funny.

Hell, you could see Ray Davies becoming a Scott Walker type figure if American success compels him to continue experimenting.
 
It's a bit recent, sure, but the Strypes got the raw end of the deal. Jamie Hewlett offhandedly mentioned them in an interview once and suddenly they had record deals rolling in. And they were ridiculously talented for their age, being called 'the best rhythm blues guitarist you’ve ever seen' at age 14.

I don't think the labels knew what to do with them. They started out as a covers group doing pub rock stuff, like the Stones, but by the time they split up they were repackaged as another flashy Spotify single-type outfit with an aesthetic that didn't fit at all. Real sad how they fizzled out.
 
A few more ideas:
  • Badfinger: Wrote some great songs, including 'Without You' and had the support of McCartney and Apple Records. But fell foul of exploitation and poor management, leading to two tragic suicides. With more support they could have gone on and become a big fixture of soft rock in the 1970s, similar to Bread.
  • Procul Harum: Had a huge debut hit with 'A Whiter Shade of Pale' in 1967 but failed to capitalise on this due to record company delays, lineup changes, and poor management.
  • Cat Stevens: Was hugely successful but retired from music in 1979 after his conversion to Islam. Could have been one of those artists like Dylan or Bowie would went on and on making acclaimed music.
  • Jason Molina/Songs:Ohia: A talented songwriter and guitarist who died young from alcoholism and was celebrated posthumously.
 
I think Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam actually recorded something a few years ago? god I was so into him as a kid, which I am sure is not at all why I like weird sad indie pop so much.
 
Jason Molina/Songs:Ohia: A talented songwriter and guitarist who died young from alcoholism and was celebrated posthumously.
Having quickly listened to his stuff, his music and sound wouldn’t be too out of place amongst the New Americana crowd. I could definitely see him performing alongside folks like Colter Wall and Orville Peck.
 
[*]Gerry Rafferty: Had a huge international hit with 'Baker Street' (and previous success with Stealer's Wheel)

I feel like Gerry Rafferty’s Soft Rock sound is almost purposefully perfect for the period of 1978 - 1982, and if he had toured likely would have meant a longer staying power given how sharp the drop off is after Night Owl in sales.

The legal & contractual problems caused by the break-up of Stealer's Wheel meant he couldn't release anything for three years, which stymied his career prior to "Baker Street" and "Get It Right This Time". When his contract with United Artists ended in 1982 there was another six years of silence. Success brought more problems than failure.

He just hated being popular, but loved making music.

I always wondered why Blancmange disappeared as a synth-pop duo, while Depeche Mode carried on to world domination, despite shedding band members, and Tears For Fears had enormous success despite hating each other.
 
You know, you kind of wonder how things might have panned out if a couple of several artists who wound up as composers for video game soundtracks had secured record deals with music studios and gone mainstream, and vice-versa. Frank Klepacki, for instance, stated that "my original goal in life was to be in a famous band, tour the world and sell millions of albums. Although that didn't quite happen, I got something else just as gratifying. Instead of being in a famous band, I gained some fame in the industry as a game composer. Instead of touring the world, I receive fan mail from around the world. Instead of selling millions of albums, my music is on millions of games! And I sell enough of my own albums that allows me to keep releasing them. So in a different way, I kind of got what I wanted after all. And I'm more than happy with that. The most fulfilling part of it is that I feel I contributed something that mattered to a significant number of people, and more importantly, I got to be a part of projects that mattered a lot to my life personally, like Star Wars!"

But what if he'd succeeded in his "original goal in life"? Would he, and a few other composers/artists (like John Seigler and David Rolfe, best known for the Pokemon Theme song, or Chuck Lorre, whose original ambition in life was also to be a mainstream guitarist and songwriter), have had what it takes to make it in the mainstream music industry? And as a side-note worth thinking about (enough to merit a thread of its own, perhaps?), if these artists had indeed found mainstream success (or even mainstream mediocrity), how differently might their franchises (video game, film, anime, cartoon etc), which they became famous for having composed the scores for IOTL, have fared in alternate timelines without these artists' scores and soundtracks?
 
I always wondered why Blancmange disappeared as a synth-pop duo, while Depeche Mode carried on to world domination, despite shedding band members, and Tears For Fears had enormous success despite hating each other.
So I just read an article about them, which included why the stopped and the simple answer is, they were done with Blancmange. They stayed friends and did side projects and all that, further efforts to properly reunite being quashed by Stephen Luscombe’s health problems.

If Blancmange was more ‘popular’, then probably what happens is Neil Arthur has a more successful solo career and Stephen Luscombe probably transfers to music production and all that.
 
Back
Top