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Alternate Terminology: Flying High – Air Force Roundels
- Thread starter AndyC
- Start date
Great work on how you included the visuals, Andy, especially as I didn't give you much notice unfortunately! But then this is your area of expertise...
Not sure if this is new or if I just haven't spotted it before, but I like the links to the article writers' published works at the bottom.
Not sure if this is new or if I just haven't spotted it before, but I like the links to the article writers' published works at the bottom.
It's quite new - it occurred to me last week so I've been doing it for the past few days.
- Location
- Balham
- Pronouns
- he/him
A great piece, answered lots of questions I'd been wondering about. Particularly like the point about how modern symbols would doubtless look different if the alliance systems had been different in WWI.
I know right? I always wonder if Turtledove was aware of this, given there's a few brief mentions in TL-191 that the US uses eagles and crossed swords and the UK just uses the Union Jack (because no potential confusion in the Canadian theatre?) but not sure how aware he was of these factors.
- Location
- Balham
- Pronouns
- he/him
I had a play around because I had some time on my hands. Good luck getting the alliance system to actually look like this...
Very good indeed! Russia could also perhaps use a St Andrew's cross (though that might be one of those 'too neat for OTL' things)
Arthur_Phuxache
Left To My Own Devices, I Probably Would
- Location
- Greater Doncastrian Empire
Some editing required.
The modern Luftwaffe emphatically does NOT use the Balkenkreuz.
The modern Luftwaffe emphatically does NOT use the Balkenkreuz.
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- Location
- Balham
- Pronouns
- he/him
That's really good - if you like, imagine the above one says '1914-1915' underneath, and the St Andrew's Cross was '1915-1917*'.
- Location
- Balham
- Pronouns
- he/him
There's a politer way to say this, by the way.
What's the cross they now use called?
Huh, fair enough - that's a proper Mandela Effect moment for me because I am absolutely sure I have seen modern Luftwaffe planes with it on. In fact the one you've posted looks like a photoshop to me (as in it's not, but I'm so sure I've seen current Luftwaffe planes with the Balkenkreuz that it looks like something from an ATL).Some editing required.
The modern Luftwaffe emphatically does NOT use the Balkankreuz.
@AndyC can you please edit accordingly? Thank you.
@Meadow it's a variant on the Cross Pattée.
Arthur_Phuxache
Left To My Own Devices, I Probably Would
- Location
- Greater Doncastrian Empire
I thought that was quite polite and restrained (by my standards at least).
The idea that the Bundeswehr would use any insignia used by the Nazi Luftwaffe is historically implausible.
It's just called the Schwartz Kreuze AFAIK.
It's funny because I even remember having this very thought when I first remember seeing modern Luftwaffe planes with it on "huh, would have thought they'd want to avoid that implication". This is seriously creepy.
Arthur_Phuxache
Left To My Own Devices, I Probably Would
- Location
- Greater Doncastrian Empire
The Luftwaffe do paint it on A LOT smaller than they used to, so you can be forgiven for mistaking it for a Balkenkreuz.
That's probably why, yeah.
The Luftwaffe do paint it on A LOT smaller than they used to, so you can be forgiven for mistaking it for a Balkenkreuz.
Arthur_Phuxache
Left To My Own Devices, I Probably Would
- Location
- Greater Doncastrian Empire
Seeing as the OTL USAAF changed its national insignia
I was aware of this, incidentally, although I know the text makes it sound like they switched straight to the post-1947 version from 1942 - there just wasn't enough space for that degree of detail.Seeing as the OTL USAAF changed its national insigniafourfive times between 1941 and 1945, you can get away with most thing . (Six times between 1941-1947), you can get away with a lot of variation.
- Location
- Barcelona
Roundels are one of the smallest details I've had to have clear in my mind for my alternate WW2 series but they are also one of the most important. It would have been easy enough just to shove the colours of a flag on them and leave them as circles, but they are a representation almost of national identity, of belonging, and I've tried to use them to express that.
The roundels of the Kingdom of Britain have their red dots replaced by a very royal lion. www.instagram.com/p/Bu6zYvVhf7w/
The aircraft of the harsh and brutally efficient Prussian Empire have simple iron crosses, while the Emperor of Italy wants to bring back the glory of Rome and has put a laurel wreath and SPQR on his.
American aircraft have yet to be seen in combat but I'm sure when they are their roundels will effectively represent the united continent of the Americas.
(edited for clarity and link)
The roundels of the Kingdom of Britain have their red dots replaced by a very royal lion. www.instagram.com/p/Bu6zYvVhf7w/
The aircraft of the harsh and brutally efficient Prussian Empire have simple iron crosses, while the Emperor of Italy wants to bring back the glory of Rome and has put a laurel wreath and SPQR on his.
American aircraft have yet to be seen in combat but I'm sure when they are their roundels will effectively represent the united continent of the Americas.
(edited for clarity and link)
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Arthur_Phuxache
Left To My Own Devices, I Probably Would
- Location
- Greater Doncastrian Empire
I'm surprised the profound effect on Finnish air force roundels from switching sides doesn't get a mensh!
"Quick - white and blue concentric circles at the double - and paint everything olive drab!"
"Quick - white and blue concentric circles at the double - and paint everything olive drab!"