Alternate Political Strongmen and Strongwomen

[Alex Richards]

IIRC Switzerland's WWII military chief Henri Guisan had some fascist inclinations and cultivated a cult of personality. Could a successful resistance / National Redoubt against a German invasion have swept him into power postwar, as a De Gaulle figure or something worse? Or would the experience of Nazi occupation have tarnished his image among the majority of Swiss who weren't included inside the Redoubt?

The problem with trying to get it to work with Switzerland is that for a true strongman he'd need to centralise powers to the Federal government, and I can't see the Redoubt Cantons (i.e. the area where he's going to have to have the most support initially) even remotely agreeing to that.

 

[AlfieJ]

Ashdown was tightly wound during 1989-1992 and the '97 election, and imagining what the snap could have looked like, especially if he was in a position of genuine power at the time, kinda terrifies me.

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[Yossarian]

I like the Massey idea.

Similarly, a much shitter 1930s could see Sidney Holland rising to the top as leader of the New Zealand Legion.

Sid Holland would make a great paranoid dictator; the lazy eye meant he could look over both shoulders at once.

 

[OHC]

The problem with trying to get it to work with Switzerland is that for a true strongman he'd need to centralise powers to the Federal government, and I can't see the Redoubt Cantons (i.e. the area where he's going to have to have the most support initially) even remotely agreeing to that.

Yes, Swiss federalism makes this one a tough sell. I can imagine potential workarounds, like maybe a strongman’s party being elected in multiple cantons and coordinating on a party level, but it would require more knowledge of Swiss politics than I have.

 

[Alex Richards]

Yes, Swiss federalism makes this one a tough sell. I can imagine potential workarounds, like maybe a strongman’s party being elected in multiple cantons and coordinating on a party level, but it would require more knowledge of Swiss politics than I have.

By the 1940s everything's so tied up in direct democracy and decentralisation of power that I'm not sure even that would do the trick.

Now, whether something could emerge out of the political chaos of the 1830s and 40s that would see a more centralised Switzerland is something I think might be possible but couldn't definitively say.

 

[Ares96]

By the 1940s everything's so tied up in direct democracy and decentralisation of power that I'm not sure even that would do the trick.

Now, whether something could emerge out of the political chaos of the 1830s and 40s that would see a more centralised Switzerland is something I think might be possible but couldn't definitively say.

The obvious place to start, as you've pointed out, is to have a more equitable settlement between the Cantons and their dependencies/allies after Napoleon does his business - places like Urseren and Gersau being full Cantons is going to be a situation that cries out for thorough reform.

 

[Ares96]

So it strikes me that in a world where the Anti-Federalists are weaker when the Constitution is drafted (let's say Thomas Jefferson goes through with committing suicide when his wife dies, and George Clinton and Patrick Henry just utterly, utterly fail to pick up the pieces), Alexander Hamilton might be one of these. The man's democratic instincts were certainly not one hundred percent.

 

[Alex Richards]

The obvious place to start, as you've pointed out, is to have a more equitable settlement between the Cantons and their dependencies/allies after Napoleon does his business - places like Urseren and Gersau being full Cantons is going to be a situation that cries out for thorough reform.

Hmm, perhaps the Helvetic Republic never gets kicked off, but instead we've got a messy civil war within Cantons that eventually just causes the whole thing to collapse in on itself?

 

[Creekmench]

Manfred von Richthofen in a reality where he lives and somehow assumes power if he was so inclined. Perhaps Franz Josef Strauss could be a West German Berlesconi?

 

[Tamar]

For Hungary, István Csurka (very much the spiritual father of Jobbik) could possibly have made a very nasty one if he avoided getting kicked out of the Democratic Forum and manoeuvred himself into a position of power as opposed to sniping from the sidelines.

For Romania, I've always had the feeling that Ion Iliescu could very easily have been one if he felt like it.

 

[moth]

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Ashdown was a big believer in the great man theory, and saw him and Tony as the men who would stand side by side to being change to the country as the two great men destined to do so (this was the basis of The Project). Ashdown was so in love with this idea of him as one half of two that were the only people who could save Britain it took reminders from his close advisors to keep a reality check and not get caught up in the fantasy of "two strong people standing up and shaping history" (actual advisor quote). He was also a notorious micro-manager, calling his Spokespeople at all hours at the drop of the hat to make sure they were on top of policy in the most obscure of local issues, and made sure to have a plan for everything. Hyperactive, physically fit, and full of energy, he was constantly worried and on edge about if the LibDems could float as a party- the fact he inherited a party that got its HQ cleared by HM Revenue and Customs on the first day of his leadership and left it a well oiled fighting force was a testimony to his leadership. Indeed, the fact he was able to win in Yeovil of all places, through basically military tactics applied to local policies, is a testimony to his 'fight and be right' belief. That said, he nearly destroyed the party because of his headstrong approach, too lost in his own vision and not considering the party as a whole (although he learned his lesson by the time he had stepped down).

Had he been in a position of real power, that last point may become an issue, and may have, if he deemed it necessary, led him to do what he felt was right to achieve his vision.

 

[Meadow]

N O R M A N
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[Ares96]

N O R M A N
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post-nuclear tebbitscape

dissidents will be sent to bicycle mills that power the electrical grid

 

[Meadow]

Thinking about people who are more on the Berlusconi end of the strongman scale than the Syngman Rhee end, Robert Maxwell is a fun candidate for a 'welder of the state and press together' leader.

Then there's Beaverbrook, of course.

 

[Comisario]

Thinking about people who are more on the Berlusconi end of the strongman scale than the Syngman Rhee end, Robert Maxwell is a fun candidate for a 'welder of the state and press together' leader.

Then there's Beaverbrook, of course.

Maxwell is a good shout, and he’s got the crap brood that’s normally attendant to such political figures. He is, in his own way, a bit like a halfway house between Bettino Craxi and Silvio Berlusconi - and Kevin Maxwell could be like a shit British take on Bobo Craxi.

This has given me a very good idea.

 

[morbidteaparty]

Depending on assassinations being averted Luis Donaldo Colosio (PRI presidential candidate in 1994) has good potential.

Francisco Sá Carneiro, who was PM of Portugal, and very much a populist, before his untimely death in 1980 would be quite interesting as well, particularly as he leaned more to the left than a lot of others.

 

[OwenM]

Neil McEvoy and Ron Davies both feel like they could potentially fit in a somehow independent Wales, but that's just off the cuff.

 

[Japhy]

James V. Forrestall after his landing in Iwo Jima is a favorite pick of mine. He was transformed from a whiz kid tagged for greater and greater things to a maniac, though no one would come to realize it until the end when everything came crashing down in 1948. Massively popular in the public and good at keeping things apparently together as he went on to be the first Secretary of Defense he was for a while Truman's greatest threat going into the 1948 convention. When that didn't work he tried to establish himself as a sort of J Edgar Hoover figure at the DoD and got guarantees from Tom Dewey that he'd be kept on at that post and by all accounts he was dreaming of never letting go of the job. But when that didn't work he got caught and fired by Truman. The complete mental collapse and the conspiracy theory ridden end came soon their after.

Domestically he presented himself as a post political figure, a former Wall Street Liberal he was now all about optimization, strong American values and minimizing the domestic half of the Presidential equation because of a view that nuclear war was imminent. The one problem is that he was likely if given the job to actually pull the nuclear trigger but if he leans a bit towards muscular defense instead he can give you a strong armed, forever war, eternal president for the world's worst version of the 1950s.

Or he can jump out a window again too.

 

[Indicus]

A cliché option is Indira Gandhi's son Sanjay, who played a key role in the Emergency before dying in a plane crash. The big problem is that Sanjay Gandhi was a dope and not particularly popular, so he's likely to either get overthrown or assassinated before he can rule for too long.

Actually, according to The Sanjay Story by Vinod Mehta, during the Emergency, he created a propaganda campaign that resulted in a surprisingly-high amount of support. At his rallies, for instance, he didn’t need to bribe that many people to support him. It later dissipated as the full scale of his atrocities became known in the freer India post-Emergency, but had he gained control during the Emergency, he could have retained control for a while. I suspect things would eventually fly apart in this period, but the key word is eventually.

 

[Blackadder Mk2]

I'll admit that one possible end I envisioned for Crowned Prime Minister back in the day was Walter Walker taking charge after a much angrier '70s as someone trying to restore 'civil society'.

Orwell once said that after World War One, Lloyd George and Horatio Bottomley could have become dictators with their popular support. The former I think had it in him, especially if the Liberals took up a more Imperialist line over the Boer War and he and the Radicals left the party over it. There were certainly some who felt Victor Grayson was helped along in his death. As for Bottomley, he might have been called in had the anti-war movement been more popular and a more aristocratic-looking leadership needed someone with the common touch just like in FaBR.

Knowing little to nothing about South Africa, Buthelezi of the Inkatha Freedom Party might have been a darker post-Apartheid leader in a world where the ANC are a less unified party/anti-Apartheid forces are less united. Thatcher certainly did more than a bit of flirting with him because of her suspicions of the ANC.