Alliance Win in 1983: Voting Reform?

[Bolt451]

Reading about last nights Meatball election and does anyone know what electoral system the Liberal/SDP Alliance supported? Especially in the event of their getting a majority in 1983 (and did this change between 83 and 87)

(alternatively, would this change in the event of an Alliance-Labour agreement)


Just pondering it given there have been multiple TLs or lists (two of which were written by me!) but I never actually looked into what system they'd use (mostly because 1 was semi-satirical and 1 was intentional Italian parallelism)

 

[OwenM]

Reading about last nights Meatball election and does anyone know what electoral system the Liberal/SDP Alliance supported? Especially in the event of their getting a majority in 1983 (and did this change between 83 and 87)

(alternatively, would this change in the event of an Alliance-Labour agreement)


Just pondering it given there have been multiple TLs or lists (two of which were written by me!) but I never actually looked into what system they'd use (mostly because 1 was semi-satirical and 1 was intentional Italian parallelism)

STV, same as the Lib Dems do now, I believe, though I'm not sure about quotas or counting systems.

 

[Bolt451]

STV, same as the Lib Dems do now, I believe, though I'm not sure about quotas or counting systems.

Random thought, could MMP be brought in as a compromise between list and constituency votes? Perhaps in the event of a Alliance-Labour gov?

 

[OwenM]

Random thought, could MMP be brought in as a compromise between list and constituency votes? Perhaps in the event of a Alliance-Labour gov?

It's not impossible (IIRC there was some kind of official commission that recommended a variant in the 70s) but I can't say any obvious road to it occurs to me.

 

[Nomad]

From the 1983 Alliance manifesto:

Specifically we propose to:

• replace the existing electoral system with a system of Community Proportional Representation. It will be based on multi-member constituencies which correspond to natural communities. It will use a system of preferential voting under which people list candidates in the order of their choice. The outcome will be that the share of seats gained by the parties in Parliament will reflect their support among the voters.

Thus natural communities like cities (e.g. Hull, Plymouth, Leeds, Edinburgh), and counties (e.g. Somerset, Northumberland) will be single multi-member constituencies of different size, represented by different numbers of MPs. Preferential voting by single transferable vote (STV} will enable the voter to distinguish between candidates of a particular party and thus to affect the character of that Party in Parliament. A single Party will not be able to gain a parliamentary majority unless it secures nearly 50 per cent of the votes. There will be a spread of representation in every part of the country and we will see the end of the increasing political polarisation between North and South

When I was sketching out an SDP wins TL a while back, I took this to mean constituencies of 3-6 members, going off the number of seats that each of the places mentioned had at the time. It's possible that those proposals could be watered down somewhat and smaller constituencies could be created, either as a concession to a junior partner, or as way of maximising the Alliance's newfound advantage now it was one of the major parties. One interesting question which wasn't really addressed was whether PR would be implemented with or without a referendum. IOTL, Owen wanted the public to vote, whilst Steel and the other members of the Gang of Four didn't. That could provide a potential flashpoint in the early phases of an alliance government, particularly as I doubt that the likes of Jenkins and Steel, for whom PR was as much a point of principle than about partisan self interest, would be willing to budge on that question.

 

[OwenM]

Given I think the realistic versions of these scenarios tend to have an Alliance minority government, I suspect it would have to be a referendum.
I remember some discussion in the comments on @iainbhx's excellent 1984 election night story (in a TL where we lost the Falklands War) on whether the Conservatives might split over it.

 

[Nomad]

Given I think the realistic versions of these scenarios tend to have an Alliance minority government, I suspect it would have to be a referendum.
I remember some discussion in the comments on @iainbhx's excellent 1984 election night story (in a TL where we lost the Falklands War) on whether the Conservatives might split over it.

I've always thought that in a situation where the Alliance and Labour are the two largest parties, with the Tories a distant third, which is the most plausible scenario, then we would likely see a coalition rather than a minority, as the Tories would have by far the most to lose through a new election in September or whenever, when the Alliance could basically cast the choice as being between them and Michael Foot, and the Conservatives would get squeezed badly. Maybe a minority would be more plausible if a right winger led the Tories rather than Whitelaw or someone, but I think the odds would favour a majority government (even if it was as a coalition) before the year is out.

Either way, though the Tories wouldn't be won over to PR overnight, if it became clear that retaining FPTP could lead them to annihilation then I could see them 'deprioritising' it and basically letting the Alliance implement it with minimal objection.

A Tory split is feasible either way, but arguably even more likely if STV were brought in. I could see some sort of Powellite grouping emerging in opposition to the coalition. Or we could see mass defections from moderates to the alliance as it became clear they could actually win, not unlike what we saw in France after Macron was elected.

 

[Bolt451]

From the 1983 Alliance manifesto:

When I was sketching out an SDP wins TL a while back, I took this to mean constituencies of 3-6 members, going off the number of seats that each of the places mentioned had at the time. It's possible that those proposals could be watered down somewhat and smaller constituencies could be created, either as a concession to a junior partner, or as way of maximising the Alliance's newfound advantage now it was one of the major parties. One interesting question which wasn't really addressed was whether PR would be implemented with or without a referendum. IOTL, Owen wanted the public to vote, whilst Steel and the other members of the Gang of Four didn't. That could provide a potential flashpoint in the early phases of an alliance government, particularly as I doubt that the likes of Jenkins and Steel, for whom PR was as much a point of principle than about partisan self interest, would be willing to budge on that question.

This is great, thank you

I've always that in a situation where the Alliance and Labour are the two largest parties, with the Tories a distant third, which is the most plausible scenario, then we would likely see a coalition rather than a minority, as the Tories would have by far the most to lose through a new election in September or whenever, when the Alliance could basically cast the choice as being between them and Michael Foot, and the Conservatives would get squeezed badly. Maybe a minority would be more plausible if a right winger led the Tories rather than Whitelaw or someone, but I think the odds would favour a majority government (even if it was as a coalition) before the year is out.

Either way, though the Tories wouldn't be won over to PR overnight, if it became clear that retaining FPTP could lead them to annihilation then I could see them 'deprioritising' it and basically letting the Alliance implement it with minimal objection.

A Tory split is feasible either way, but arguably even more likely if STV were brought in. I could see some sort of Powellite grouping emerging in opposition to the coalition. Or we could see mass defections from moderates to the alliance as it became clear they could actually win, not unlike what we saw in France after Macron was elected.

I now feel an urge to write this, if I had more knowledge about the subject

 

[Nomad]

This is great, thank you



I now feel an urge to write this, if I had more knowledge about the subject

A lot of the stuff I know about the SDP and the Alliance comes from Ivor Crewe's and Antony King's 'The Birth, Life, and Death of the SDP' which my Uni library just so happened to have a copy of. It's quite expensive on the net, but it's a good place to start if you want to know more.

 

[AlfieJ]

A lot of the stuff I know about the SDP and the Alliance comes from Ivor Crewe's and Antony King's 'The Birth, Life, and Death of the SDP' which my Uni library just so happened to have a copy of. It's quite expensive on the net, but it's a good place to start if you want to know more.

It’s been a great source for my thesis and Ivor is the master of my college so I can not recommend this enough