ChrisNuttall
Well-known member
This idea was mentioned in the ‘general discussion’ thread. I started to think about it.
US Liberates Britain, 1944
Basic Concept
Britain was successfully invaded by the Nazis in 1940, with the remnants of the Royal Navy and the British Government fleeing across the Atlantic to Canada, but this didn’t bring an end to WW2. While Italy and Japan sought to snatch up isolated and suddenly vulnerable parts of the British Empire, along with smaller countries like Spain, Turkey and Iran, Hitler struck east in early 1941 (early than OTL, as Italy didn’t invade Greece in this timeline) and found himself bogged down in a nightmarish war against Russia. Hitler did take Moscow, thanks to the earlier start, but managed to lose it again as the Russians counterattacked in early 1942. The war seesawed back and forth since then, with neither side gaining a decisive advantage.
Much to Hitler’s chagrin, the US entered the war in 1942 as a naval clash between the USN and the Japanese Navy turned into a major conflict ... and US defeat, as the Japanese aircraft sunk the US battleships more or less effortlessly. Hitler, still convinced the US was a paper tiger, was quick to declare war on the United States, a major blunder as the US was rearming quickly (faster than OTL, as lend-lease wasn’t sent to Britain or Russia) and managed to defeat a Japanese invasion of Australia in late 1942. The US is also arming the ‘Free British,’ as well as a dizzying array of Indian factions who claim to remain loyal to the Raj, but are - to all intends and purposes - effectively independent.
The US knows it has to carry the war into the lair of the fascist beast. It isn’t going to be easy. Iceland is a US base and heavily defended, but Ireland is effectively neutral (the Irish would prefer to side with the US, but the Germans are closer) and there aren’t many other options. FDR, who needs a major victory (as well as airbases close enough to the Reich to eventually drop the a-bomb), has authorised the US to prepare for Operation Washington, the liberation of Britain.
Points to Ponder
What would have happened to the remnants of the Royal Navy, RAF and army in this timeline. The navy would have been able to retreat to Canada or Gibraltar, although it is unclear how long the bases would have been able to sustain the fleet without supplies from the homeland. The army would have lost much of its heavy material - how much manpower could be pulled out in time and how many men would actually want to go?
What would ‘Vichy Britain’ look like? Oswald Mosley is the traditional British Petain (he insisted he would refuse the dishonour, if asked, but that was after the war was over and everyone knew the Nazis would lose). How much of Hitler’s madcap plans for stripping Britain bare would actually be put into operation? How many people would collaborate, because they saw no other choice; how many people would do their level best to resist, hide the vulnerable, fight back?
How much of the British Empire would remain loyal? Spain would probably be able to take Gibraltar very quickly. Italy would be able to snatch Malta - Egypt might be a harder target in the short term, although an Egyptian revolt in the rear might lead to disaster and fights between Jewish and Palestinian factions in Palestine. Turkey would take advantage of the chaos to snatch northern Iraq; Russia might invade Iran; Japan might target the East Indies and Singapore (at the very least, they’d be able to stop supplies making their way into China.) India would be harder for anyone to invade, at least in the short term, but British weakness would probably lead to a major power transfer (the best outcome) or complete chaos (the worst). Dominions like Canada, New Zealand and Australia would be thrown back on their own resources and probably get much closer to the US.
How would the German-Russian War go in this timeline? An earlier start might let Hitler get to Moscow before winter, and a shortage of lend-lease would definitely weaken the Russians, but there were just too many other problems with Barbarossa for them to be fixed quickly. The Germans would snatch vast swathes of territory, even if they managed to keep Moscow, but they’d find it hard to keep their conquests long enough to exploit them. That said, they’d probably be able to draw on more manpower from Italy and Spain if the former wasn’t fighting in North Africa on quite the same scale.
How would the US develop in this timeline. Germany would look a lot scarier - Japan too, if the first battles are more one-sided than OTL. (And Japan wouldn’t have looked to have launched a surprise attack too, possibly impacting the US’s response.) That said, America is still staggeringly powerful and, once its people start getting experience, they will get more capable very quickly.
Ireland would probably snatch Northern Ireland as quickly as possible, perhaps under the guise of keeping the Nazis out. The locals won’t like it - the Irish might try to keep British troops in place, but this would be politically difficult and likely to upset the Germans. Ireland would probably prefer to side with America, when push came to shove, but the Germans are much closer. Will this change?
Getting the US army to Britain will be difficult. Landing will be harder. If Ireland is a base, a landing in Liverpool might make sense (port facilities); if not, what about Glasgow (quite some distance from Europe) or Plymouth?
The USN could run a diversionary operation, perhaps claiming the troops are going to North Africa rather than the UK.
Thoughts?
US Liberates Britain, 1944
Basic Concept
Britain was successfully invaded by the Nazis in 1940, with the remnants of the Royal Navy and the British Government fleeing across the Atlantic to Canada, but this didn’t bring an end to WW2. While Italy and Japan sought to snatch up isolated and suddenly vulnerable parts of the British Empire, along with smaller countries like Spain, Turkey and Iran, Hitler struck east in early 1941 (early than OTL, as Italy didn’t invade Greece in this timeline) and found himself bogged down in a nightmarish war against Russia. Hitler did take Moscow, thanks to the earlier start, but managed to lose it again as the Russians counterattacked in early 1942. The war seesawed back and forth since then, with neither side gaining a decisive advantage.
Much to Hitler’s chagrin, the US entered the war in 1942 as a naval clash between the USN and the Japanese Navy turned into a major conflict ... and US defeat, as the Japanese aircraft sunk the US battleships more or less effortlessly. Hitler, still convinced the US was a paper tiger, was quick to declare war on the United States, a major blunder as the US was rearming quickly (faster than OTL, as lend-lease wasn’t sent to Britain or Russia) and managed to defeat a Japanese invasion of Australia in late 1942. The US is also arming the ‘Free British,’ as well as a dizzying array of Indian factions who claim to remain loyal to the Raj, but are - to all intends and purposes - effectively independent.
The US knows it has to carry the war into the lair of the fascist beast. It isn’t going to be easy. Iceland is a US base and heavily defended, but Ireland is effectively neutral (the Irish would prefer to side with the US, but the Germans are closer) and there aren’t many other options. FDR, who needs a major victory (as well as airbases close enough to the Reich to eventually drop the a-bomb), has authorised the US to prepare for Operation Washington, the liberation of Britain.
Points to Ponder
What would have happened to the remnants of the Royal Navy, RAF and army in this timeline. The navy would have been able to retreat to Canada or Gibraltar, although it is unclear how long the bases would have been able to sustain the fleet without supplies from the homeland. The army would have lost much of its heavy material - how much manpower could be pulled out in time and how many men would actually want to go?
What would ‘Vichy Britain’ look like? Oswald Mosley is the traditional British Petain (he insisted he would refuse the dishonour, if asked, but that was after the war was over and everyone knew the Nazis would lose). How much of Hitler’s madcap plans for stripping Britain bare would actually be put into operation? How many people would collaborate, because they saw no other choice; how many people would do their level best to resist, hide the vulnerable, fight back?
How much of the British Empire would remain loyal? Spain would probably be able to take Gibraltar very quickly. Italy would be able to snatch Malta - Egypt might be a harder target in the short term, although an Egyptian revolt in the rear might lead to disaster and fights between Jewish and Palestinian factions in Palestine. Turkey would take advantage of the chaos to snatch northern Iraq; Russia might invade Iran; Japan might target the East Indies and Singapore (at the very least, they’d be able to stop supplies making their way into China.) India would be harder for anyone to invade, at least in the short term, but British weakness would probably lead to a major power transfer (the best outcome) or complete chaos (the worst). Dominions like Canada, New Zealand and Australia would be thrown back on their own resources and probably get much closer to the US.
How would the German-Russian War go in this timeline? An earlier start might let Hitler get to Moscow before winter, and a shortage of lend-lease would definitely weaken the Russians, but there were just too many other problems with Barbarossa for them to be fixed quickly. The Germans would snatch vast swathes of territory, even if they managed to keep Moscow, but they’d find it hard to keep their conquests long enough to exploit them. That said, they’d probably be able to draw on more manpower from Italy and Spain if the former wasn’t fighting in North Africa on quite the same scale.
How would the US develop in this timeline. Germany would look a lot scarier - Japan too, if the first battles are more one-sided than OTL. (And Japan wouldn’t have looked to have launched a surprise attack too, possibly impacting the US’s response.) That said, America is still staggeringly powerful and, once its people start getting experience, they will get more capable very quickly.
Ireland would probably snatch Northern Ireland as quickly as possible, perhaps under the guise of keeping the Nazis out. The locals won’t like it - the Irish might try to keep British troops in place, but this would be politically difficult and likely to upset the Germans. Ireland would probably prefer to side with America, when push came to shove, but the Germans are much closer. Will this change?
Getting the US army to Britain will be difficult. Landing will be harder. If Ireland is a base, a landing in Liverpool might make sense (port facilities); if not, what about Glasgow (quite some distance from Europe) or Plymouth?
The USN could run a diversionary operation, perhaps claiming the troops are going to North Africa rather than the UK.
Thoughts?