- Location
- Albany, NY
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Glad somebody said itAnglo-American/Nazi War.
Glad somebody said itAnglo-American/Nazi War.
I've never actually read it.Glad somebody said it
This post went places, and those places are amazing.
Really, I should have had this idea a few days back when I could have entered it for the 'Horror' vignettes.
I've never actually read it.
But yeah. Post-1900 is filled with stuff which is basically awful and sometimes unreadable but is juvenilia. So it's unfair to treat it as you would published works or the like. (I was going to do a thread a while back on here about 'Tropes In AH you really dislike', but I realised that 80% of it would have been the consensus opinions of 15 year olds on Post-1900)
no Wilhelmine Germany, no pursuit of power for its own sake, no French revanchism over Alsace-Lorraine, and no First World War. In which case, there would have been no Treaty of Versailles in 1919, no Second World War. Had there been no First World War, thee would have been no Bolshevik Revolution, no Soviet Union, and therefore no Cold War. The course of history for the last 150 years, the horrors of the century of total war, our century, would have been irrevocably changed. Instead, and inept posturing nephew of the greatest military commander in modern times became the unwitting destroyer of primacy of Europe.
I want to print this out and frame it.I enjoy pseudo-textbooks- EdT's Fight and Be Right is a fine example of the form.
Something about World War II timelines, though, does tend to bring out the inner spreadsheet fetishist in many writers.
The unsuspecting reader enters the thread thinking they're going to be hearing about the wider social and political ramifications of a POD, or at least enjoy a good yarn. Then the doors slam shut and you realise you're trapped in a metaphorical basement with a captor who wants nothing more than to spend hours describing the cannon diameter of the second turret on a Japanese cruiser and all your fellow hostages have strong opinions on this too.
In the same vein, Niall Ferguson's Virtual History. All of the essays are pure historical essays. Then at the end Ferguson (apparently realizing at the last minute that he had to include some alternate history) writes an alternate history piece that squashes every single essay's topics together. Which leads to a scenario where the American Revolution fails, but a century and a half later the Nazis manage to defeat the Soviet Union and Prime Minister JFK (who survives being shot at by Lee Harvey Oswald) leads the nation into the quagmire of Vietnam.This is probably stretching the definition of "published AH" a bit, but the essay collection "What If?" is pretty bad.
It's a promising premise; professional historians discussing where well-known (and some lesser-known) historical events might've gone differently. But in practice, half the essays are just pure historical essays, discussing the importance of the essay's subject, with the alt-historical elements often crammed into a single paragraph or even sentence at the end of the essay. Most of the essays have very little interest in exploring alternate scenarios, which seems like a huge waste.
And even when the author deigns to engage in a bit of alt-historical speculation, it's lazy and half-assed. Most of the historians seem to subscribe strongly to the "great man" school of history, with major events depending on the moods and health of single individuals. And even if they're not engaging in full-on great man nonesense, they all tend to overestimate the impact of "Big Events", such as individual battles, on the broad course of history.
For example, the essay "Bismark's Empire Stillborn" by historian James Chace argues that, if Napoleon III had not been suffering from depression and ill-health, France would have defeated Prussia in 1871, which would have resulted in
A lot to unpack there, even ignoring putting France's defeat in 1871 squarely on Nappy III's shoulders (Great Man theory strikes again!), Chace makes so many assumptions about pretty much everything. Prussia was in an ascendant position even in 1871 that, even a defeat in the Franco-Prussian war would have seen a Prussia/semi-unified Germany as a major Great Power and rival of France. No reason why there still wouldn't be a major continental war some time in the early 20th century, and no reason why, even if WWI is fully avoided, why the 20th century wouldn't be one of ideologies and total war.
And the last sentence is troubling in the sense that it feels like Chace believes the world would be better if we still had "European Primacy". :|
I want to print this out and frame it.
Glad somebody said it
Of course Calbear monumental ego did not helped. At least here we can mention that without being at risk of being banned just because we criticized a sacred cow.
Meh.
In a less resentful tone - dystopia for the sake of dystopia is boring.
You know, I've seen a lot of overlap "worst AH" discussions, including here, and to be honest, two of the big sources, even if the criticism towards the individual works is valid, feels like the critic is often punching down at too easy a target when I see something from there slammed.
I'm just going to come out and say, even disliking the work and having had a very rough time with Calbear on the Other Place, please don't think for a moment I agree with this sentiment or "Me too" onto my comment.Of course Calbear monumental ego did not helped. At least here we can mention that without being at risk of being banned just because we criticized a sacred cow.
Meh.
In a less resentful tone - dystopia for the sake of dystopia is boring.
By the way, it is Kennedy" was the most egregious example IMO.
I enjoy pseudo-textbooks- EdT's Fight and Be Right is a fine example of the form.
Something about World War II timelines, though, does tend to bring out the inner spreadsheet fetishist in many writers.
The unsuspecting reader enters the thread thinking they're going to be hearing about the wider social and political ramifications of a POD, or at least enjoy a good yarn. Then the doors slam shut and you realise you're trapped in a metaphorical basement with a captor who wants nothing more than to spend hours describing the cannon diameter of the second turret on a Japanese cruiser and all your fellow hostages have strong opinions on this too.