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What if David Lloyd George was killed by the Spanish Flu shortly before the Versailles Conference?

raharris1973

Well-known member
Who would replace him and what would be the impact on peacemaking?

One suggestion for a replacement.

A conservative, Bonar Law would take the helm as PM and represent the UK at the conference.
 
Who would replace him and what would be the impact on peacemaking?

One suggestion for a replacement.

A conservative, Bonar Law would take the helm as PM and represent the UK at the conference.

If his replacement is less willing or less capable to reign in the French and company (The Polish especially), then it is likely the Germans refuse to sign the Treaty.
 
Bonar Law's health was very touch and go throughout this period until he died in 1923, and he only really stayed in post to support the Coalition (and Lloyd George), so I can see him retiring after the initial Treaty is signed. His probable successors would be Austen Chamberlain, or Curzon, who I don't think should be underestimated for how much he dominated foreign policy from 1919 onwards.

In fact with a more demurring figure like Law at Versailles I can see Curzon taking a lead in places like the Middle East, where he foresaw the Balfour Declaration would antagonise the Arab world. I don't think Law and co would be too much different from Lloyd George in mediating between Wilson and Clemenceau, perhaps with a more defined role in preserving Austria Hungary & the Ottomans to keep Soviet Russia back, stabilising central Europe.

As for the UK domestically I see little difference in how the Coalition responds to organised labour and Ireland. Certainly it becomes a pretty Conservative affair in time. The division of Liberal forces was very pro- or anti- Lloyd George, so with him out of the picture, Asquith would be pretty soon sidestepped and the Liberals probably reunite under someone like John Simon or Walter Runciman, who tried to get back into Parliament at Spen Valley, 1919, and Edinburgh South, 1920.
 
I can see Curzon taking a lead in places like the Middle East,

Very interesting, what is this going to mean in terms of altering policy?

where he foresaw the Balfour Declaration would antagonise the Arab world.

What will he *do* differently based on that insight? Will he find a way to strangle Jewish National Home commitment in its crib, drastically cut down Jewish immigration from an early point? Will he make any earlier, substantive concessions to Arab autonomy, independence or unity?

Beyond his relations in the Middle East region with the Zionists, will his relations be the same, better, or worse than historical with the French in Syria and Lebanon?

How will he relate with states on the regional periphery, towards Iran, Turkey, Egypt? Play favorites any differently in Arabia between Saudis and Hashemites?

I don't think Law and co would be too much different from Lloyd George in mediating between Wilson and Clemenceau,

Ah, on West European matters and the League and the like I guess.

perhaps with a more defined role in preserving Austria Hungary

Isn't it a bit late for that with new nations breaking out and having formed themselves? Romanians and Serbs and Italians occupied a lot of Austro-Hungarian land already by the time of the armistice. Almost contemporaneous with the armistice and months before the Treaty, Poles took over Galicia, Czech uprisers took over Prague and the Czech Legion was establishing a rep in Russia.

The unsettled matters by the time of Versailles were details like specifics of the German-Polish border, whether Sudetenland would be part of the Republic of German Austria, its own thing, or Czechoslovakia, whether the Republic of German Austria would be barred from unifying with Germany or not.

I don't think Hungary, beat up as it was, was interested in being in union with Austria any longer.

& the Ottomans

This would be a huge contrast from David Lloyd George! Would Andrew Bonar-Law and the government he leads not have DLG's mania for beating the Turks into dust and promoting Greek expansion into the Megali (Greater Greece) idea? Perhaps the Treaty of Sevres is never as harsh, they never try to boost Greece so much or make Armenia so big, and maybe a full Ataturkist revolution doesn't happen.

to keep Soviet Russia back,

Would Law's government be notably more anti-Bolshevik/pro-White than DLG? Possibly (but longshot) leading to Red defeatl; more likely stretching out the bloody Russian Civil War and slowing Soviet consolidation?

As for the UK domestically I see little difference in how the Coalition responds to organised labour and Ireland. Certainly it becomes a pretty Conservative affair in time. The division of Liberal forces was very pro- or anti- Lloyd George, so with him out of the picture, Asquith would be pretty soon sidestepped and the Liberals probably reunite under someone like John Simon or Walter Runciman, who tried to get back into Parliament at Spen Valley, 1919, and Edinburgh South, 1920.

Really, with a Conservative (one with Ulster Scots heritage at that) replacing a Welsh Liberal as top man in the coalition for three years, the British government won't be any more stubborn about accepting the Irish Free State as part of an Anglo-Irish Treaty in Dec 1921? And he wouldn't be any more stubborn in the face of Labour demands?
 
These are all good questions and I'll take them in order. Actually looking at Cabinet appointments, Balfour was Foreign Secretary for the whole Conference while Curzon deputised in London. Balfour was easygoing but essentially winged it as a minister; Curzon was pedantic and overworking, the total opposite. Bonar Law was less grandstanding than LG so I can see him taking Curzon to negotiate for a more consistent approach.

Very interesting, what is this going to mean in terms of altering policy?

Curzon saw British influence in the Middle East as protecting the route to British India; thus he was the only supporter of a long-term occupation of the Caucasus, so less knee-jerk anti-Turkism in exchange for building up the anti-Soviet buffer. Maybe dropping support for Armenia but keeping Azerbaijan independent.

What will he *do* differently based on that insight?

He took a special interest in Persia and wanted to develop British commercial interests there as a protectorate, but really failed to appreciate the new wave of nationalism after WW1, and took a very patrician view. So it would not end prettily if he tried to force his way in. Balfour was still be responsible for Palestine and at this time the Indian Office was responsible for Mesopotamia so if you have Edwin Montagu in post, you'll see similar policies for the time being.

According to his biographer David Gilmour, Curzon was the only senior politician to recognise favouring the Jews would antagonise the Arabs in the long run, so he might keep the peace better, as you say cut down on Jewish migration or concede Arab autonomy more. Other people like Herbert Samuel & Balfour would control other aspects, and this is key - for all his immense knowledge of the region, Curzon utterly lacked the people skills to bring his colleagues along. So if he intervened, it might make matters worse, but he could have some successes.

I don't know how he would handle the Hashemites - maybe keeping Jordan united with Palestine and creating a separate South Arabian kingdom. Curzon negotiated Egyptian "independence" in 1922 so that happens on schedule.

Isn't it a bit late for that with new nations breaking out and having formed themselves?

A very good point and I think by this point a more united Germany, maybe with the Sudetenland and Austria, the German/Polish border decided by plebiscites, is most likely, as part of a broader anti-Soviet front.

Curzon was far less romantic about seeing the White Russians as underdogs than Churchill, but hated Communism, so building a solid ring around Soviet Russia instead of directly intervening, is more likely. So a less strong "Hands off Russia" campaign overall.

Armenian independence can go either way, but certainly a much milder Treaty of Sevres, and if the Turks do go expansionist, none of the gung-ho approach Lloyd George took over Chanak.

Really, with a Conservative (one with Ulster Scots heritage at that) replacing a Welsh Liberal as top man in the coalition for three years, the British government won't be any more stubborn about accepting the Irish Free State as part of an Anglo-Irish Treaty in Dec 1921? And he wouldn't be any more stubborn in the face of Labour demands?

Up to a point - Bonar Law told Austen Chamberlain that he only really cared for Ulster, and the rest was fair game, which understandably annoyed Southern Unionists like Walter Long. Even Carson preferred a united Ireland with a Protestant minority, and only used the UVF etc to prevent Home Rule across all of Ireland. So you might see OTL but worse - Northern Ireland opted out, way more bloodshed down south, very likely no armistice of 1921.

As for labour demands, many strikes were a natural response to the economic downturn of '19-'21 but Lloyd George reacted with his typical heavy-handedness. In 1917 he said he saw a fight between him and Henderson for the political future, so he was motivated by fear throughout. Bonar Law had far more tact and humility, so was far less prone to reaction and grandstanding.
 
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