Discuss @David Flin 's final "The Write Stuff" article here
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I suppose other than the issue of redemption which I think we just won't agree on (Though a trope I absolutely loath is someone dies doing something good and are thus redeemed when in my view that is far far too easy and tbh anyone can die for something, much much more in line with them living with what they've done and trying their very best to make it right especially if its impossible to make it right. Trying to be better even after the harm you've done can't be made better is powerful to me) so lets focus on the latter points.Excellent. Different perspectives generally lead to a better understanding.
Without going into the religious aspect, I've always felt that Redemption carries a Price Tag. If it's too easy (or not required, and they can cross these red lines without anyone within the setting giving a damn), then any redemption is essentially meaningless. They've got to prove that they've redeemed themselves.
There are also some lines (and different people will place the lines in different places) that, once crossed, cannot be uncrossed. Theologically, the character might be able to make their peace with God, but the reader isn't God.
Pretty much. A spotless, untainted Paladin is boring as a character. Every choice is effectively no choice. Likewise, if there are literally no consequences to morally dubious behaviour (a protagonist casually killing an innocent bystander because they need that bystander's car), then there is essentially no morality. There is no Right or Wrong, merely what happens to be convenient or not. Every choice is effectively no choice from a moral standpoint.
The tensions of teaming up a villain with a protagonist has a long tradition. One example of such comes from Heroes, Series 2 (or maybe 3, I'm going on memory), where Noah Bennett and Sylar are teamed up to recapture escaped supervillains. There's a clear tension involved, and some good storytelling opportunities (sadly wasted, because Heroes was on a downhill slope in terms of storytelling by this point).
Or Gollum and Frodo/Sam going into Mordor. I'm sure there's plenty of fan-fiction out there with Luke Skywalker accepting Darth Vader's offer towards the end of Empire Strikes Back.
No argument from me. Macbeth, for example, is a character who fails. He commits greater and greater acts of evil, and eventually the bill comes due. By far my favourite of Shakespeare's plays.
Put simply, actions have consequences.
Pretty much. A spotless, untainted Paladin is boring as a character. Every choice is effectively no choice. Likewise, if there are literally no consequences to morally dubious behaviour (a protagonist casually killing an innocent bystander because they need that bystander's car), then there is essentially no morality. There is no Right or Wrong, merely what happens to be convenient or not. Every choice is effectively no choice from a moral standpoint.
In terms of 24 and torture, 24 was literally used as justification for torture in an actual senate debate I believe. Which is terrifying for a lot of reasons.
There are too many examples in fantasy, SF and political thrillers to choose from, but strangely, the first time I remember noticing this was in, of all places, Spike Lee's 1989 film Do The Right Thing. It's actually quite mild compared to the rest of what we're discussing: the main character (played by Spike Lee himself), after the wrongful killing of a Black person by the police, watches an angry mob gather in front of the pizzeria where the incident took place. He takes a trash can and throws it into the window, prompting the mob to break into all-out riot, loot the pizzeria and set it on fire. I was a teen when I saw that movie and quite unaware of US racial politics, and to me, that completely turned me off both the character himself and the story: he saw a situation on the verge of exploding into violence, and gave the nudge that tipped it over on the wrong side.
Indeed, I was a teenager at the time and knew very little about the history of race relations in the US. Were I to see this movie for the first time now, I hopefully wouldn't have a "default white" reaction.Spike Lee says that white viewers have opinions close to yours and that African-Americans don't even ask whether it was the right thing to do.