PC: African-American autonomy/sovereignty

[Mumby]

It's come up enough its almost a cliche. But I think it's an interesting thought to get stuck into. The idea of African-American sovereignty, either as 'the 49th state in the Union' or as independent state is a long one that runs the gamut of the ideological spectrum from communists through liberals and out onto the acolytes of the Black Dragon Society. It's also tied up with the Pan-African movement which often proposed an outright migration of African-Americans back to Africa to overthrow European colonialism.

The most obvious geographical location is the historical Black Belt, but this alone carries issues. How do you convince the white dominated states to relinquish territory, in some areas enough to effectively abolish themselves? What about African-Americans outside this area, such as in Chicago? And assuming you get over that, what are the consequences for other ethnic groups, such as Native Americans, and non-Anglophone communities?

 

[Alex Richards]

I think it's only possible to bring this about in the event of some sort of Reconstruction-era decision that basically goes 'back to Africa didn't work, so lets just send all the Blacks to one bit of the south.'

Probably a rough sort of central Mississipi/Alabama thing and rely on Whites being so small a minority in the new state that they can't make internal troubles.

 

[Gary Oswald]

I think it's only possible to bring this about in the event of some sort of Reconstruction-era decision that basically goes 'back to Africa didn't work, so lets just send all the Blacks to one bit of the south.'

It does sound like the sort of thing Grant would come up with and then be unable to get through congress.

 

[OwenM]

It does feel like something that could have been pushed for but probably not actually happen.
I think the closest you'd actually get is something like Male Rising's South Carolina, where there's one state where Reconstruction hangs around and it's actually got blacks in the driving seat. And even that felt like pushing it a bit.

 

[Warthog]

John Brunner's Jagged Orbit had self-governing African-American enclaves, which were mainly cities

 

[Doctor Sulemain]

It does sound like the sort of thing Grant would come up with and then be unable to get through congress.

It's kinda what he wanted to do with the Dominican Republic.

 

[OHC]

I can't remember if it was a TL or just an idle conversation, but I've seen the idea of some sort of black equivalent of the Maori constituencies tossed around. I could see it appealing to Reconstructionists in a sort of separate-but-equal way. That wouldn't be the same as an autonomous, executive state government, but it would be an early base of black political power.

Of course, it might end up being deemed unconstitutional for the same reasons that at-large Congressional elections were.

 

[Japhy]

Have the right VP in 1864 and suddenly State Suicide Theory, something that many Radical Republicans considered an option, takes place and Congress declares the former Confederacy to be unincorporated territory. At that point they have the right to do the ultimate gerrymander.

IIRC assuming the same number of states you can manage to have three Black Majority states, three "Rebel" states with the remainder being Unionist-Freedman majorities. Which is an easy enough way to do it.

I'll also admit not that I've ever gotten around to doing it I do have fun with the idea of the US securing the Canadian West after the War and seeing Saskatchewan becoming the "Black Homesteader" state.

 

[Warthog]

Have the right VP in 1864 and suddenly State Suicide Theory, something that many Radical Republicans considered an option, takes place and Congress declares the former Confederacy to be unincorporated territory. At that point they have the right to do the ultimate gerrymander.

IIRC assuming the same number of states you can manage to have three Black Majority states, three "Rebel" states with the remainder being Unionist-Freedman majorities. Which is an easy enough way to do it.

I'll also admit not that I've ever gotten around to doing it I do have fun with the idea of the US securing the Canadian West after the War and seeing Saskatchewan becoming the "Black Homesteader" state.

Do you have a map?

 

[d32123]

The key isn't just to establish a black majority state (Mississippi and South Carolina were majority black during OTL Reconstruction) it's ensuring continued black political and economic power. A black movement alone won't accomplish this, there are far too few of them, and existing at the whim of white elites is not sustainable either. You would need a successful nationwide movement supporting the self-determination of black people. Perhaps a successful Bryan-era anti-imperialist movement makes black self-determination one of its planks? The other big chance would be some sort of mainstream support for the New Afrika movement during the 1960s/70s but that's such a small window and OTL never got close.

 

[Japhy]

Do you have a map?

Haven't found it yet. Unfortunately at the other place it seems that every time this comes up the mapmakers just turn the military districts into States which was never the idea. I'll look more tomorrow.

 

[Japhy]

The key isn't just to establish a black majority state (Mississippi and South Carolina were majority black during OTL Reconstruction) it's ensuring continued black political and economic power. A black movement alone won't accomplish this, there are far too few of them, and existing at the whim of white elites is not sustainable either. You would need a successful nationwide movement supporting the self-determination of black people. Perhaps a successful Bryan-era anti-imperialist movement makes black self-determination one of its planks? The other big chance would be some sort of mainstream support for the New Afrika movement during the 1960s/70s but that's such a small window and OTL never got close.

Reconstruction also could have succeeded. Even IOTL it took until the Populists betrayed Black Voters in the 1890s for the full Jim Crow system as we know it to come into place. Without the sabatoge of Andrew Johnson at its start it could have been a much stronger system.