Austria-Hungary-Croatia

[Ricardolindo]

Most trialists proposals in Austria-Hungary were for Croatia. It was suggested to unite the Kingdom of Croatia which belonged to Transleithania and the Kingdom of Dalmatia which belonged to Cisleithania. Often included also was the Condominium of Bosnia and Herzegovina which had a significant Croat population, a large border and historical ties. There were even proposals to include the Slovene Lands but that would make Croats a minority and make it a Yugoslavia without Serbia and I think was too much of a stretch.
How could such a proposal have been enacted and what would have been the effects?

 

[Ricardolindo]

Many people believe that Franz Ferdinand wanted to do this. I, myself, am inclined to think so. The reason that Hungary was reluctant to accept this idea is that Croatia was their sea access. However, they would still be part of the same country and Croatia while part of Transleithania was not part of Hungary. If the Hungarians are pressured enough, I could see them caving.

 

[Redolegna]

Bohemia would go spare. Or bursar.

 

[Redolegna]

If the Hungarians are pressured enough, I could see them caving.

We talking about the same bastards with the most restrictive franchise in Europe who withheld grain from the rest of the empire during WWI, precipitating famine and collapse across the whole country, then tried to argue that the war was nothing to do with them and they should be rewarded or at least not punished, have never let up about Trianon ever since? Those who blackmailed Charles into getting a coronation as soon as possible to make sure he had taken oaths to preserve the integrity of the lands of the Crow of St Stephen? Those Magyars?

Yeah, they yield real nice.

 

[Ricardolindo]

We talking about the same bastards with the most restrictive franchise in Europe who withheld grain from the rest of the empire during WWI, precipitating famine and collapse across the whole country, then tried to argue that the war was nothing to do with them and they should be rewarded or at least not punished, have never let up about Trianon ever since? Those who blackmailed Charles into getting a coronation as soon as possible to make sure he had take oaths to preserve the integrity of the lands of the Crow of St Stephen? Those Magyars?

Yeah, they yield real nice.

I would say, though, that if the Hungarians would be willing to give up any territory, it would be Croatia. It was part of Transleithania but not of Hungary proper. The only reason Hungary wanted to keep it was sea access.

 

[Jackson Lennock]

Bohemia would go spare. Or bursar.

Bohemia and Galicia as the Fourth and Fifth Crowns seems possible down the line.

 

[Death's Companion]

Wasn't there some speculation that there was a civil war looming of everyone versus Hungary to re-establish the A-H empire on a more equal framework? Its not an area I know anything about tbh.

 

[frustrated progressive]

Wasn't there some speculation that there was a civil war looming of everyone versus Hungary to re-establish the A-H empire on a more equal framework? Its not an area I know anything about tbh.

Possibly, though to be honest I imagine it'd turn into a godawful mess, with at least some Hungarians trying for actual independence, not to mention many of the Slavic minorities that would be nominally on the pro-imperial side but might take advantage of Vienna's weakness if they aren't offered a good enough arrangement.

 

[Torten]

Possibly, though to be honest I imagine it'd turn into a godawful mess, with at least some Hungarians trying for actual independence, not to mention many of the Slavic minorities that would be nominally on the pro-imperial side but might take advantage of Vienna's weakness if they aren't offered a good enough arrangement.

Italy, Serbia and Romania all have reasons to get involved in the civil war as well.

 

[Ricardolindo]

Bohemia and Galicia as the Fourth and Fifth Crowns seems possible down the line.

The problem with a Bohemian crown is that the Germans were strongly opposed to it. Franz Ferdinand wouldn't support it.

 

[Ciclavex]

The problem with a Bohemian crown is that the Germans were strongly opposed to it. Franz Ferdinand wouldn't support it.

But the Bohemian Crown legally already existed and was ancient and prestigious; the "Imperial and Royal" in the Habsburg style when it referred to things outside of Hungary referred to Austria and Bohemia. There's no way that Croatia is made into a separate kingdom of the empire before Bohemia is. Trying to do so has literally no positive benefits for the Imperial House whatsoever, because you are only going to piss off everyone.

 

[Ricardolindo]

But the Bohemian Crown legally already existed and was ancient and prestigious; the "Imperial and Royal" in the Habsburg style when it referred to things outside of Hungary referred to Austria and Bohemia. There's no way that Croatia is made into a separate kingdom of the empire before Bohemia is. Trying to do so has literally no positive benefits for the Imperial House whatsoever, because you are only going to piss off everyone.

Most trialist proposals were for Croatia, though. The Germans would strongly oppose a Bohemian crown. In addition, Bohemia was an industrial center.

 

[Redolegna]

Doesn't matter what the proposals were. How do you think the Bohemians would react if the Austrians and Hungarians agreed that yes, another division is needed, and it's not for those who have been most vocal for the longest, but for the Croats, who had a bit of a rep?

I'd say they'd make the Hussite wars look a bit tame.