• Hi Guest!

    The costs of running this forum are covered by Sea Lion Press. If you'd like to help support the company and the forum, visit patreon.com/sealionpress

Alternate History General Discussion

Speaking as a lapsed archery coach, that's not too shabby at that age.

The one thing with archery that gets me in films is how actors will draw and then hold for a minute or more.

Often, when teaching absolute beginners, I might draw them talk for quite a while, discussing the line of the arm, aiming points and all the rest. Now I'm not too weedy, in the grand scheme of things, but the point of the arrow would start to wander long before a minute. And this was a far more ergonomic bow than a curved stick, as my instructor called his longbow. So I would always relax, redraw, quick reminder, then loose.

But the average actor with a bow will draw, watch a five minute monologue without a tremor, then loose and shoot the bad guy in the eye socket.
God, I hate seeing that.

A 32lb bow was too heavy for me at that age, anyway - I was more accurate with a 28lb one because I could stay consistent and not weaken rapidly, but they advised me to get that one "to grow into it." (Didn't work; I ended up pulling muscles more than once, deteriorating accuracy, and getting discouraged and quitting).
If I ever tried to hold it at full draw for more than ten seconds back then, God knows where the arrow would have ended up. Hopefully somewhere in front of me.

I did get told about longbow archers in the middle ages being able to hold a hundred-pound-plus longbow at full draw for minutes at a time (standing beside a sea captain, for example, to reinforce their words), but they'd not only practiced since they could stand, but the effect of all that training actually distorted their bodies. Massive shoulders and arms, and (according to what I was told then; I never cross-checked it so it could be bollocks), even affecting skeletal development as they grew up. Reportedly, you could tell longbow archers of the time from the skeleton alone - with distorted bones around the shoulder.

Now, if said actor looked really freakish around the shoulders, I think we could grant them more plausibility. But they invariably look rake-thin.
 
Massive shoulders and arms, and (according to what I was told then; I never cross-checked it so it could be bollocks), even affecting skeletal development as they grew up. Reportedly, you could tell longbow archers of the time from the skeleton alone - with distorted bones around the shoulder.

Reminds me of how gymnasts who starved themselves as girls often ended up with really weak bones after they grew up.
 
Having spent part of my evening watching a documentary on YouTube about War Plan Red (linked to Wikipedia not the documentary for copyright reasons) and feeling creative juices flowing, I’m wondering if there’s AH works out imagining if it had somehow come to pass?

What I'm noticing about War Plan Red is the American plans were assuming "Canada is the lynchpin, we must invade Canada to protect ourselves from invasion" while the vague British assumptions were "defending Canada would be impossible and invading the US wouldn't work, we'll do other stuff" - and the Canadians apparently hadn't been told we considered them indefensible. So if it all kicked off, you could have a massive US invasion of Canada and initial flying column assaults at American border cities by Canadian forces, only for the President to hear there's a naval force coming their way from Bermuda and the Philippines is being invaded and everyone's looking the wrong way. (Assuming the fact of an invasion didn't force Westminster to decide to send troops to Plucky Canada, anyway.)

Fictionwise, there's a farce in this. The superpowers are trying to go to war but keep ending up going for decisive battles where the other side isn't because they're trying for a decisive battle in the other place entirely.
 
What I'm noticing about War Plan Red is the American plans were assuming "Canada is the lynchpin, we must invade Canada to protect ourselves from invasion" while the vague British assumptions were "defending Canada would be impossible and invading the US wouldn't work, we'll do other stuff" - and the Canadians apparently hadn't been told we considered them indefensible. So if it all kicked off, you could have a massive US invasion of Canada and initial flying column assaults at American border cities by Canadian forces, only for the President to hear there's a naval force coming their way from Bermuda and the Philippines is being invaded and everyone's looking the wrong way. (Assuming the fact of an invasion didn't force Westminster to decide to send troops to Plucky Canada, anyway.)

That's sort of the impression I got from the documentary and the quick reading that I did online after watching it. Essentially, it's a war that everyone planned to fight but in ways that made it impossible for anyone to have a decisive victory on their own terms, as you said.

Fictionwise, there's a farce in this. The superpowers are trying to go to war but keep ending up going for decisive battles where the other side isn't because they're trying for a decisive battle in the other place entirely.

I'm not sure if it would quite be a farce, so much as a lot of lives and material being thrown down the drain ala the First World War because no one has a back-up plan for when don't go according to Plan A.

Either way, creative wheels are starting to turn, for better or worse...
 
What I'm noticing about War Plan Red is the American plans were assuming "Canada is the lynchpin, we must invade Canada to protect ourselves from invasion" while the vague British assumptions were "defending Canada would be impossible and invading the US wouldn't work, we'll do other stuff" - and the Canadians apparently hadn't been told we considered them indefensible. So if it all kicked off, you could have a massive US invasion of Canada and initial flying column assaults at American border cities by Canadian forces, only for the President to hear there's a naval force coming their way from Bermuda and the Philippines is being invaded and everyone's looking the wrong way. (Assuming the fact of an invasion didn't force Westminster to decide to send troops to Plucky Canada, anyway.)

Fictionwise, there's a farce in this. The superpowers are trying to go to war but keep ending up going for decisive battles where the other side isn't because they're trying for a decisive battle in the other place entirely.

My very first AH was on that ... it was crappy <grin>

Chris
 
I'm not sure if it would quite be a farce, so much as a lot of lives and material being thrown down the drain ala the First World War because no one has a back-up plan for when don't go according to Plan A.

Either way, creative wheels are starting to turn, for better or worse...

Well, first we’d need a reason for 1930s Britain and America to go to war. There weren’t actually many reasons; neither power has any real reasons to pick a fight with the other. A lone incident – one side blundering across the other’s border - is unlikely to start an all-out ‘teach the blighters a lesson’ war. More likely, the diplomats would calm things down before they got out of hand.

Perhaps the post-WW1 diplomatic scene goes worse. The US tightens the screws on lending in a bid to get better battleship numbers than OTL. The UK backs Japan at the talks, rather than selling them out and ending the alliance. Britain thinks the US is trying to put a straightjacket on the Royal Navy, the US thinks Britain hopes to continue ruling the waves while waveing the rules. Japan plays on this, hoping to keep the UK onside. Then we wind up with the Irish Civil War, with the UK convinced the Irish are terrorists and the US sure they’re freedom fighters. The Irish cause all kinds of diplomatic ruptures when they draw weapons and supplies from the US, perhaps even mount terrorist attacks in Canada. The US would like to stop this, but public opinion is very pro-Irish and there’s little effective it can do. Things start to slide out of hand, with the UK sending troops to Canada to seal the border (which is pretty much impossible) and the US seeing them as a dagger pointed at the American heartlands; the UK also searching US shipping, as in 1812, and provoking massive bad feeling.

It's possible, in this timeline, Britain and Japan (and America) put more money into shipbuilding and land forces than OTL. Assuming they didn’t, the UK/Japanese alliance would have the edge, at least at first. On the other hand, the US would dominate the war on land. Fighting along the Canadian border would be costly, but the US would eventually push its way to the cities and take most of the country. (Halifax may not be so impregnable at this point.)

Meanwhile, the UK will have raided the coasts of America, taken the US installations on Cuba, captured the Philippines with Japan’s help and possibly taken Pearl Harbour as well. At that point, the UK runs out of viable targets. Raiding the US will hurt, but it won’t be fatal. The war might burn itself out at that point, with the US keeping Canada and the UK/Japan keeping its booty. (And all three sides having serious economic problems.) Or the war will stalemate until the US builds up the naval power to take the war to the UK/Japan.

If it continues, I imagine the US will mount major offences against British possessions in the Carabeen, as well as providing covert support to independence-minded activists across the British Empire. The UK might retaliate by supporting American blacks and Mexicans in hopes of keeping the US tied down at home. The fighting will go back and forth for a long time, but eventual US superiority will begin to tell and the British will be driven out of the region. At that point, I’d expect the UK to sue for peace.

If not, the war probably turns into Harry Harrison’s wet dream …
 
C4uiaK6.png
 
Writing a sex scene that isn't cringy and uncomfortable to read is clearly a hard skill to master, and a lot of books are written by people who didn't.
They have to have a narrative purpose other than mere titillation in order to actually mean anything, and I've only seen one good one in all of alternate history.
 
Back
Top