• Hi Guest!

    The costs of running this forum are covered by Sea Lion Press. If you'd like to help support the company and the forum, visit patreon.com/sealionpress

AHC: Theresa May, the British Kim Campbell

Bolt451

Sometimes things that are expensive...are worse
Published by SLP
Location
Sandford, Gloucestershire
Pronouns
She/They
So, I think it was @Callan who upon seeing the 2017 election exit poll said something like "She was going to be Margaret Thatcher and now she's just Kim Campbell."

My challenge to you is, preferably with a PoD post her election as Tory leader in 2016, how badly can things go for Theresa May. I dont quite think a 2 seat result is doable but how bad can it go? You dont neccesarily have to have a 2017 General election

(and you dont have to go full parallelism and have the SNP as the Bloc Quebecois, there be a Reform equivalent and the Lib Dems be the NDP)
 
Last edited:
It's hard to imagine Labour eating the Tories down to single digit seats so I expect Farage's crowd will have to eat them from the right too? So you need May to generate a betrayed brexit narrative, and probably defections from the most anti EU Tories to a Brexit outfit, giving it more credibility?

Which means you do get a Reform analogue, and I think that's inevitable to get that level of Tory disaster.
 
Jeremy Corbyn is not Labour leader, therefore the Tories have even less incentive to stick to May's Brexit position. Perhaps someone more credible than Owen Smith challenges him and/or the antisemitism scandal is more advanced. Labour doesn't have any great options but someone perceived as a 'safe pair of hands' eg Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn.
 
It's hard to imagine Labour eating the Tories down to single digit seats so I expect Farage's crowd will have to eat them from the right too? So you need May to generate a betrayed brexit narrative, and probably defections from the most anti EU Tories to a Brexit outfit, giving it more credibility?

Which means you do get a Reform analogue, and I think that's inevitable to get that level of Tory disaster.

Have pro remain Tories head off to the Lib Dems too?
 
Have pro remain Tories head off to the Lib Dems too?

Try something like a Tory TIG and end up in the LibDems when it looks like it's going to flop?

You could also have a bunch of Labour defections because Corbyn hasn't proven he can fight with 2017, which end up looking very stupid when the Tory collapse means Labour does very well.

A Corbyn Labour/Farage Brexit partisan split is going to be hell on a lot of centrists' brain.
 
Try something like a Tory TIG and end up in the LibDems when it looks like it's going to flop?

You could also have a bunch of Labour defections because Corbyn hasn't proven he can fight with 2017, which end up looking very stupid when the Tory collapse means Labour does very well.

A Corbyn Labour/Farage Brexit partisan split is going to be hell on a lot of centrists' brain.

Perhaps a later election. Post Grenfell too. (hell, I did an entire TL about that, Where Corbs was minority PM for 3 years)

Orrrr , GE as OTL. she calls another in summer 2019, lol.
 
Perhaps a later election. Post Grenfell too. (hell, I did an entire TL about that, Where Corbs was minority PM for 3 years)

Orrrr , GE as OTL. she calls another in summer 2019, lol.

Oh yeah, May not going and leading the party into 2019 would probably do something to the Tories. On the other hand by then Corbyn was a lot less popular so it'd be harder to get a proper wipeout unless the core of the Tory party defect to Farage's groupies.
 
Something 2019-esque is the way to go. She doesn't call an election in 2017, narrowly fails to pass a deal, and does call an election that just happens to be timed for a few weeks after the European parliament election in 2019, to get enough backing for her deal. Get a stronger Change UK that's more sensible about its goals and works with the Lib Dems and Greens to make a centre-left/centrist pro-European alliance that contests the EP election as one, narrowly beating out Farage's crowd. Get someone decently charismatic as the head of the alliance. 2019 general election becomes a de facto second Brexit referendum; ends up at something like 30% Brexit Party, 30% pro-European alliance; 15% Labour, 15% Tory.

Instead of an alliance you could have it be just the Lib Dems in that role (not sure how good Vince Cable would be but is a possibility) too.

But yeah, your best bet is "election de facto turns into second Brexit referendum, May's deal is popular with nobody"
 
The difficulty of Campbell-ising a politician is that you need an unexpectedly catastrophic election result - and a very short premiership. For May to become a British Kim Campbell (not a Canadian one as the title suggests!) you’d need to combine the surprise of the 2017 election with the material conditions of 2019. I’m really not sure how you get the latter into 2017, unless you meddle a lot.

My suggestion - an oldy but with a bit of colour: Michael Gove doesn’t bolt and Boris Johnson launches his campaign for Tory leader in 2016.

As polling from the time indicated, Johnson might actually have had to fight to win, unlike 2019’s virtual coronation. He emerges with a decent win but nothing spectacular (55-45, perhaps), and feels compelled to go to the country to win a proper mandate that autumn.

He’s a better campaigner than May, but the country is still reeling from the referendum and there’s a lot more visceral dislike in the country for him. Critically, it’s too early in the Brexit process for the Red Wall to flip. The Tories emerge with basically the same amount of seats as they went in with and, without the spectre of a second general election, Jeremy Corbyn is more amenable to the so-called McDonnell plan. He quits, and Johnny Mac is leading the opposition within six months.

Johnson has less wiggle room than May and a lot more enemies. His freewheeling and bluster doesn’t get him very far and, unlike OTL 2019, the national patience with Brexit hasn’t snapped yet so he doesn’t have many opportunities to flip the table. As with his leadership post-Partygate, a crack in the dam legitimates a raft of pre-existing doubts about his style and effectiveness in the top job. A spate of Cabinet resignations (the killing blow by Deputy Prime Minister Michael Gove, who wishes he’d never signed off on the whole bloody enterprise) forces the PM out in late-2018 or early-2019, around the same time that May hit the 48 letter mark.

Theresa May has a lot going for her in the 2018 or 2019 leadership contest - she was runner-up in 2016 and, as Johnson’s Defence Secretary (rumoured OTL), she’s got sufficient distance from the Brexit mess and acclaim for her handling of the Salisbury poisonings to easily get over the line.

She enters Downing Street and indicates her intention to go down the indicative vote path as per OTL, but her heart isn’t really in it and everyone knows it. Johnson’s resignation from Parliament technically removes the Tories’ remaining majority, and that’s excuse enough. She cuts and runs (unlike 2016, mistakenly viewing a solid leadership win as a validation of her skills as a campaigner), but her request for an extension to do so rubs a lot of people up the wrong way. Attempts to rise above the Brexit debate look awfully second referendum-friendly and, as Nigel Farage barely has time to put his pants on, the Tory campaign is marked by significant infighting about Europe. It all goes tits up as her strong (but not stable) 8-point polling lead vanishes before her eyes.

Satisfyingly, Johnson’s old seat is the one to put McDonnell over the majority line.
 
How about May not doing as bad in 2017? Despite a Tory majority, she still doesn't manage to get a deal through because of internal party divisions, but feels justified in hanging around. Having exhausted negotiation options, she calls another election around 2019 but opinions have hardened in the meantime with the Tories providing for neither side. Labour not forcing a minority caused them to reconsider their position more than OTL while the Brexit party gathered steam with the inability to pass a deal, so she gets crushed between Farage wanting to crash out and a broad second ref alliance.
 
I think that kind of collapse would have been possible if there were an election around the same time as the 2019 Euros. The problem is that the Tories would never allow an election at that point. Maybe there could be a succesful VoNC, but that would require the Tory defectors to support it, and effectively make themselves unemployed. Maybe they would have done so if Labour had a leader more palatable than Corbyn, but no Corbyn probably means no Labour poll collapse in 2017, which means no snap election, which means the Tories still have their majority, and a vote of no confidence is a lot less likely. So it's something of a catch-22, unless Corbyn is somehow ousted and replaced by someone more centrist.
 
Back
Top