A good idea to head this off at the pass, as it were. One of the reasons I think it is such a hardy perennial is that it is so deeply intertwined in the national mythos of the Battle of Britain. The Battle of Britain is important to our psyche, therefore what it "prevented", i.e. Operation <redacted>, must have been an existential threat to the UK.
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AH: Operation Sea Lion – the unmentionable sea mammal
- Thread starter Meadow
- Start date
Death's Companion
General Ugg Apologist.
I mean the BOB is still very, very important.
The Luftwaffe breaking the RAF (however unlikely) would give them a good shot at wrecking various vital ports and factories that Britain in 1940 desperately needed to stay in the fight. They had an entire army to re-equip and the battle of the Atlantic was heating up.
Though admittedly that turns it from "saving Britain" to "adversely impacting the spread sheets we beat Germany over the head with possibly lengthening the war slightly."
- Location
- Baselland
Since the topic came up in the discussion of my Sealion Vignette, let's add a more serious version of the subject here.
Imagine a timeline in which Sealion is attempted and the invasion defeated. What happens next ? In particular, what is the impact on popular culture. The way that events are portrayed in popular culture depends not just on the events themselves, but also on the mythology that builds up around those events. An example of this is the way that the Little Ships of Dunkirk are portrayed. The ships did play an important role, but that role is sometimes exaggerated and the impression is given that the ships were mostly manned by their owners when most of the ships had navy crews.
The first step in the development of the mythology of wartime events is propaganda. While there are a number of ways that the events of Operation Sealion could develop, the way they can be spun in British propaganda films is a bit more predictable. One approach was to show how "ordinary" people were helping meet the challenges of helping the war effort - see The Bells Go Down for an example based upon volunteers in the Auxiliary Fire Service. Another approach is to ridicule the enemy, and the Nazi master race mythology provides a rich target for humour - see Will Hay's The Goose Steps Out.
This is where the Home Guard enters the picture. Obviously most of the actual fighting is going to be carried out by regular forces, but the Home Guard is going to be involved as well. They are probably going to be the first to see the Germans landing and the first to engage them in order to slow their advance until the army gets there. There's going to be stories of bravery and stupidity (sometimes at the same time). There's going to be drama, and comedy, and tragedy - in short, everything you need for a good propaganda film.
After the war, the myth building will continue. People want to tell their children about the conflict that's just ended. Operation Sealion is going to be a big part of the post-war British Psyche - as big as Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain were in OTL - and the Home Guard will continue to be the centre of the myth. Movies will be made building upon the stories and earlier propaganda. The portrayal of the Germans will probably get more nuanced with time - you'll see the Honourable Heer Officer or the Scared Conscript. At some point Hollywood will want to make a version of the story, and how they fit an American protagonist into the plot will horrify or amuse the British.
Eventually, after enough time has passed, there will be parodies of the Home Guard's role in defending the country. Probably not before the Eighties though. The reaction to Blackadder Goes Forth indicates that maybe even the Nineties might be considered Too Soon by some people.
Imagine a timeline in which Sealion is attempted and the invasion defeated. What happens next ? In particular, what is the impact on popular culture. The way that events are portrayed in popular culture depends not just on the events themselves, but also on the mythology that builds up around those events. An example of this is the way that the Little Ships of Dunkirk are portrayed. The ships did play an important role, but that role is sometimes exaggerated and the impression is given that the ships were mostly manned by their owners when most of the ships had navy crews.
The first step in the development of the mythology of wartime events is propaganda. While there are a number of ways that the events of Operation Sealion could develop, the way they can be spun in British propaganda films is a bit more predictable. One approach was to show how "ordinary" people were helping meet the challenges of helping the war effort - see The Bells Go Down for an example based upon volunteers in the Auxiliary Fire Service. Another approach is to ridicule the enemy, and the Nazi master race mythology provides a rich target for humour - see Will Hay's The Goose Steps Out.
This is where the Home Guard enters the picture. Obviously most of the actual fighting is going to be carried out by regular forces, but the Home Guard is going to be involved as well. They are probably going to be the first to see the Germans landing and the first to engage them in order to slow their advance until the army gets there. There's going to be stories of bravery and stupidity (sometimes at the same time). There's going to be drama, and comedy, and tragedy - in short, everything you need for a good propaganda film.
After the war, the myth building will continue. People want to tell their children about the conflict that's just ended. Operation Sealion is going to be a big part of the post-war British Psyche - as big as Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain were in OTL - and the Home Guard will continue to be the centre of the myth. Movies will be made building upon the stories and earlier propaganda. The portrayal of the Germans will probably get more nuanced with time - you'll see the Honourable Heer Officer or the Scared Conscript. At some point Hollywood will want to make a version of the story, and how they fit an American protagonist into the plot will horrify or amuse the British.
Eventually, after enough time has passed, there will be parodies of the Home Guard's role in defending the country. Probably not before the Eighties though. The reaction to Blackadder Goes Forth indicates that maybe even the Nineties might be considered Too Soon by some people.
- Location
- Derbyshire
I think you're likely to see a lot more 'military pride' sort of thing as well- that whole 'they could beat anyone else, but they've finally met their match'. It probably means the army gets a bit more glamour to it compared to OTL.
- Location
- Balham
- Pronouns
- he/him
This reminds me that a subtle change would be no 'The Few'. There'd be a huge veneration of all servicemen and women who defended the UK in 1940, but because there wasn't a uniquely small number of people on the frontline as in OTL, the RAF wouldn't get that aspect of its mythos to the same extent.
- Location
- Derbyshire
I suppose secondary effects from this (e.g. The Luftwaffe have been targeting RAF bases rather than civilian cities before getting destroyed in detail) might also include a loss of the 'Blitz Spirit' aspect, or at least a reduction/alteration of it.
Maybe less carpet bombing of German cities as well (as opposed to none which seems unlikely.)
Maybe less carpet bombing of German cities as well (as opposed to none which seems unlikely.)
- Location
- Balham
- Pronouns
- he/him
The war's likely shorter ITTL, so there'd be less destruction of Germany generally.
- Location
- Municipal Commune of Bourne
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Something Ed pointed out to me was that the German military was reliant on horses for transportation of loads of stuff, the perception of the Wehrmacht as a hyper efficient mechanised force is a wild exaggeration, so they would have had to load a lot of horses (including fodder etc) onto those barges.
30 hours.
Loads of horses.
On boats.
For 30 hours.
I'm no scientist but that doesn't sound pleasant.
30 hours.
Loads of horses.
On boats.
For 30 hours.
I'm no scientist but that doesn't sound pleasant.
- Location
- Derbyshire
I suspect horses would have been in the first resupply, and they'd have banked on just capturing local horses and vehicles initially.
- Location
- Balham
- Pronouns
- he/him
AH Vignette: Auxiliary Units just massacring thousands of Kent horses
- Location
- Derbyshire
Everyone with a car is ordered to either load it up with people and drive north, hand it over to the war office or have it destroyed.
Government broadcast announcement:
"The main concentration of German troops can be detected from far downwind by an overpowering aroma of horseshit..."
Death's Companion
General Ugg Apologist.
Better yet have it be a false alarm. Given the downright paranoia verging on insanity of some of the counter invasion plans there would be great potential for a black comedy.
SteveBP
If-Christ-Had-Not-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Da
- Location
- Tāmaki Makaurau
If that had happened there would’ve been a Sixties TV series about it
You are joking right, would they do that, only to deny the German transportation, i knew the AU where ordered to kill anybody who knew of them (or so i have read), but killing horses.
- Location
- Derbyshire
Sure they would. The only question is whether they'd allow civilians to use horses to help evacuate north and risk them being captured if the Germans caught up with them.
Death's Companion
General Ugg Apologist.
The Germans relied on horses and its highly doubtful they could bring enough across to meet their needs so denying them horses actually would make a great deal of sense.
Would that also killing other livestock and even posiling water supplies by the AU.
In point of fact, one of the few things I know about a relative of mine from Champagne is that he went to court against the Etat Français (Vichy) which was trying to requisition his plough horse to help in the German war effort.
As the French state did not envision its swift defeat, it did not make much contingency planning for its evacuation of critical material and war-related supplies although a lot of individuals took ad hoc measures such as Joliot-Curie moving the heavy water supply out of Paris and into the south and out of the country. So a UK which has time to consider an invasion would absolutely figure out how to deny anything of import to an invading enemy.
Flash forward to the future where eating horsemeat has become a British as well as continental thing, owing to people making the same sort of 'pragmatic suggestion' as that thing in 1945 about using the leftover blood in the blood banks to make black puddings.