AH challenge: A different dress code for politicians in liberal democracies

[Warthog]

I am not sure how easy it is to go without "something to hold a collar tight" in formaler settings but already for business casual-type stuff/going out in the evening fewer people are going full coat and tie and I ahve at least one professor who wears a suit without a necktie although it stands out.

EDIT: To be clear I mean the professor wears a suit without a necktie in class.

Meaning all the other professors wear suit and tie in class?

 

[Roger II]

It depends-of the male professors, I'd say a fair few to a majority wear a suit and tie, but you do have some who wear a cardigan to class.

 

[Warthog]

Interesting - in Zim or South Africa or the Netherlands professors wearing a suit and tie were rare outside of university management - even when I was a student. One of my professors never wore closed shoes to class, another only ever wore jeans. By the time I was lecturing jeans or smart casual was almost universal among male professors

 

[Roger II]

This is a law school, so probably there is some level of conservativism in dress not present among anyone else-my impression is that in actual law offices most of the time a suit is not really required unless you're meeting clients who expect it or going to court.

 

[Hendryk]

I am not sure how easy it is to go without "something to hold a collar tight" in formaler settings

How about a button-up jacket?

 

[Roger II]

That could work, or a belted jacket with overlap and a high collar(think https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/49249).

 

[Hendryk]

That could work, or a belted jacket with overlap and a high collar(think https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/49249).

Ah yes, I have a jacket in a similar style, minus the belt. Since the collar is worn closed it doesn't matter if one isn't wearing a necktie underneath.

How about an architect's jacket for that technocratic social engineer look?

Fillon tried something like that once.

 

[Francisco Cojuanco]

In OTL, most people running for high-level elective office in liberal democracies essentially dress like bankers, unless they are seeking to attract the protest vote. International gatherings of statespeople are visually undistinguishable from board meetings; almost the only ones who dare deviate from that strict dress code are those who don't have to run for open election (and they often end up looking like James Bond villains anyway).

This is all the more remarkable as, meanwhile, the corporate world has become increasingly comfortable with "executive casual", and the hoodie seems to have become the default outfit for Silicon Valley businesspeople.

What divergence might plausibly have resulted in liberal democratic regimes allowing their mainstream political figures more originality in their clothing?

Maybe a touch more nationalistic emphasis on folk costumes? It's why at the beginning of the 20th century Philippine politicians dressed like their European counterparts, then as the 1950s rolled through there was a transition to the Barong Tagalog, which started more as something you might wear to Mass, but not something you wore in the legislature.

 

[Warthog]

Here is Tshwane 's Schrodinger's Mayor, Steves Mokgalapa in a safari suit

 

[Hendryk]

Something I've noticed with the war in Ukraine, is that since the beginning of the Russian invasion, Zelensky and his ministers have mostly abandoned the normal attire of politicians for various informal styles. Some have gone for a semi-military look without making the obvious faux pas of going full tacticool, others have simply gone casual. The implicit idea is that when the going gets tough, you don't waste time with sartorial frivolities.

Could the idea catch on as a form of performative crisis management?

 

[Charles EP M.]

It might, depending on who the politicians are - I could see 'Uncle Joe' Biden pulling it off, I couldn't see Boris Johnson pulling it off because he's made being the funny toff too much of his brand.

 

[SpudNutimus]

Something I've noticed with the war in Ukraine, is that since the beginning of the Russian invasion, Zelensky and his ministers have mostly abandoned the normal attire of politicians for various informal styles. Some have gone for a semi-military look without making the obvious faux pas of going full tacticool, others have simply gone casual. The implicit idea is that when the going gets tough, you don't waste time with sartorial frivolities.

Could the idea catch on as a form of performative crisis management?

Just want to point out that a similar sort of look could also end up stemming from a very working-class oriented series of political movements taking hold in liberal democracies electorally. Look at prominent left-wing leaders like Bernie Sanders whose brand is built on not looking like bankers, you see him dressing in more casual blue polos at public events often, or in cold weather in his often-memed puffy jacket, mainly just getting into a suit and tie when he really needs to look professional among his electoral peers. He wants to look like an average Joe because that's his ideology.





For more examples you can also look at prominent labor leaders like Cesar Chavez, who dress similarly to emphasize relatability against the well-dressed political establishment.






If you can get a genuinely labor-based political movement rolling in the West that doesn't just become a generic center-left or centrist party like they often do, then I could see this sort of look taking off as a way to appeal to their base and seem more down-to-Earth.

 

[Charles EP M.]

I can see this leading to a backlash on female politicians in these movements too, if they ever seem to be dressing a bit too fancy - which you get to some extent now anyway, but it'd be worse if the norm was to dress like one-of-the-folks.

 

[Hendryk]

Just want to point out that a similar sort of look could also end up stemming from a very working-class oriented series of political movements taking hold in liberal democracies electorally. Look at prominent left-wing leaders like Bernie Sanders whose brand is built on not looking like bankers, you see him dressing in more casual blue polos at public events often, or in cold weather in his often-memed puffy jacket, mainly just getting into a suit and tie when he really needs to look professional among his electoral peers. He wants to look like an average Joe because that's his ideology.

Mélenchon has tried it too, he even stole my style.

 

[SpudNutimus]

I can see this leading to a backlash on female politicians in these movements too, if they ever seem to be dressing a bit too fancy - which you get to some extent now anyway, but it'd be worse if the norm was to dress like one-of-the-folks.

The tan suit scandal but the scandal is that a female politician wore a suit at all. This is definitely a weird one.

 

[Francisco Cojuanco]

Something I've noticed with the war in Ukraine, is that since the beginning of the Russian invasion, Zelensky and his ministers have mostly abandoned the normal attire of politicians for various informal styles. Some have gone for a semi-military look without making the obvious faux pas of going full tacticool, others have simply gone casual. The implicit idea is that when the going gets tough, you don't waste time with sartorial frivolities.

Could the idea catch on as a form of performative crisis management?

You saw that too in footage of the Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada, including when the MPs broke out into Ukraine's Glory is Not Yet Lost. A year ago they were all dressed in suits and ties. The other day they were in what seemed to be whatever they could use to look decent.

May have a practical element - hard to do drycleaning when the drycleaner may well be bombed out, or when the water or power supply isn't exactly guarranteed.

 

[Time Enough]

If per say there’s a world where somewhere like Britain's politics become dominated by general Centre-Left/Right parties like Liberals/Conservative’s you could see the rank and file of the ILP/SDF/Far-Left party adopting Smart Boiler Suits as there main form of dress to distinguish themselves from the other two parties like how the Syndicalists Fight and Be Right dress.

So a boiler suit with a silk scarf and plain shirt could be a good way of signalling your politics.

 

[Christian]

This was only briefly during the French Revolution and before the rise of the suit and ties, but around the time of the revolution, it was apparently becoming fashionable to wear clothes that mimicked the sans-culottes. You know, rough jacket, phrygian cap, speaking in the manner of the common people, all that stuff.

 

[Hendryk]

This was only briefly during the French Revolution and before the rise of the suit and ties, but around the time of the revolution, it was apparently becoming fashionable to wear clothes that mimicked the sans-culottes. You know, rough jacket, phrygian cap, speaking in the manner of the common people, all that stuff.

What, no breeches? No lace? No wig? No make-up? Surely no respectable statesman will ever dress in such plebeian manner!

 

[Lilitou]

I'm sure this has been mentioned already in this thread wrt Zelensky, but those recent Macron photos sort of suggest that this is happening in real time, for at least as long as it's in vogue.